168 Grain Speer Match Bullets for 308 Winchester

[DMW1116]

I started out testing some of these with IMR 4064 and CCI #34 primers. I tried some Amax bullets from Hornady but could never get them to shoot the way I wanted. The Speer bullets were cheaper and seem pretty accurate from my PA10. IMR 4064 is one of the powders Speer identifies as suitable for semiautomatic rifles.

I tried the first three charge weights yesterday and the lowest weight seems pretty good, shooting about 1.2 MOA. As charges went up the groups opened up but I’m almost willing to call the third increment a good load as 3 shots went into an inch while the very first went high, so maybe that was me. I don’t see any pressure signs right now so that’s good and I feel comfortable moving up the increment range.

These are purposely being paired with some 7.62 NATO brass since I have about 100 pieces. If I can find a < 1MOA load I’ll be tickled. Even if they stay the same they’re as accurate so far as the Amax bullets at about 60% the cost.

I have one load with Sierra 175 grain bullets that is the standard from this rifle. If I can equal that, it might never see a different load. The Speers are about 55% the cost of the Sierras.

 

[Laphroaig]

I've always wondered how the Speer match bullets shoot as they are quite a bit cheaper than the others. I've never tried them though since Hornady 168 AMax;s shoot very well in my Garands and I've laid in a good supply since they have been discontinued. Keep us posted as you keep on testing.

 

[DMW1116]

I don’t think the 308 Amaxs are discontinued. I see them all over at Cabelas and Academy. They shoot ok but I’m after a cheaper bullet if I can get one that shoots just as good.

 

[AJC1]

45.0 was my 165 grand slam load... you didn't list yours so I'll guess it's in that neighborhood.

 

[DMW1116]

I need to look but it’s around that. I have a load for 180 grain SSTs that is down around 40.xx. So far all my 308 loads have been in the 40 to 43 grain range for IMR 4064.

 

[AJC1]

I need to look but it’s around that. I have a load for 180 grain SSTs that is down around 40.xx. So far all my 308 loads have been in the 40 to 43 grain range for IMR 4064.

The 175 should be right at 42.5 ish. I haven't played with it yet but between the fgmm and the development testing it's in that 42 window. I can't bring myself to burn up 175smks at 300 and less I have currently available so they just sit....

 

[DMW1116]

Yep it’s 42.5 on the nose for the 175s. They shoot amazing from this rifle but mediocre for their price. I’ve just pulled the rifle out of the case, sat down and shot 3 shots and 2 hit a 3/4” dot from 100 yards. The third would have hit if the dot had been 1”.

I used the starting weight from Speer, so 42.0, 42.4, and 42.8 so far. It goes up to 46. Yikes. I doubt I’ll make it that far.

 

[Laphroaig]

I don’t think the 308 Amaxs are discontinued. I see them all over at Cabelas and Academy. They shoot ok but I’m after a cheaper bullet if I can get one that shoots just as good.

I think they've been replaced by ELD-M's. Different tip, slightly different boattail.

 

[AJC1]

Yep it’s 42.5 on the nose for the 175s. They shoot amazing from this rifle but mediocre for their price. I’ve just pulled the rifle out of the case, sat down and shot 3 shots and 2 hit a 3/4” dot from 100 yards. The third would have hit if the dot had been 1”.

I used the starting weight from Speer, so 42.0, 42.4, and 42.8 so far. It goes up to 46. Yikes. I doubt I’ll make it that far.

I had no pressure at 45 so I'm betting you get close...

 

[lightman]

I've been shooting a 308 a long time. Its been my experience that neither the Speer nor the Hornady will shoot with the Sierra. You will have to decide what level of performance you are willing to settle for compared to cost.

There are some things that you can do to improve that NATO brass that may help. Uniform the primer pocket, deburr the flash hole and sort them by weight. Yeah, its extra work but it might cut your group size.

Powders: You are probably using the best one. (yeah, my opinion) Varget, RL-15 and the old stand-by 4895 all have the potential to be really good.

 

[AJC1]

I've been shooting a 308 a long time. Its been my experience that neither the Speer nor the Hornady will shoot with the Sierra. You will have to decide what level of performance you are willing to settle for compared to cost.

There are some things that you can do to improve that NATO brass that may help. Uniform the primer pocket, deburr the flash hole and sort them by weight. Yeah, its extra work but it might cut your group size.

Powders: You are probably using the best one. (yeah, my opinion) Varget, RL-15 and the old stand-by 4895 all have the potential to be really good.

I shoot a lot of tac, but I prefer extruded... if I could get 15 or 15.5 I'd be on that but Alllas it's not around.

 

[GooseGestapo]

I bought a bunch of the Speer’s recently (168gr BTHP). Maybe $2/100 more than 150gr FMJ’s.

They aren’t equal to Sierra’s by a long shot, but are FAR better than 150gr FMJ’s. I bought them to replace 150’s in my M1’s, ‘03/A3, and 1917. That they do!

My REM 700 Tactical shoots them about 1.1moa. As good as it shoots most anything.
They were IIRC about $26/100. Sierra’s are $49/100. They BETTER shoot better...

 

[scotty]

With Sierra 168gr bullets I have been using 45.0gr of Varget. This is at or near max in most manuals. This load shoots very nicely in my rifle, a Winchester Model 70 with a heavy 26" barrel. It betters Federal GMM by a small but repeatable margin. This is easily a sub MOA load. I am loading them a bit long. This rifle has a long throat, I'm loading them as long as the magazine will hold comfortably.

 

[DMW1116]

I tried the next 2 increments today. They’re still on the lowers side but I started to see flat primer faces. The corners are still round. I need to look for some factory fired ammo for comparison like I did with my 223 loads but there isn’t any 308 or 7.62 just laying around lately. I’m comfortable going up at least one or two more increments.

These bullets shoot very much like or maybe a little better than my Amax loads but for 60% the price of projectiles. Most loads are under 1.5 MOA and the ones that aren’t are probably me pulling a shot or something. The lowest charge is still the best group so far at 1.2 MOA. I’ve still got enough bullets to keep testing but after 3 more increments I may have to call it and just load the best of what I’ve seen. Since the places I’ve seen these are all out I’m going to conserve so I have a couple or three boxes left.

 

[AJC1]

I got the grandslam hunting bullet about an moa so you should be able to do that with their match bullet. Mine was a 165 but what's 3 grains among friends.

 

[DMW1116]

I hope so. That would be great. What were your shooting? I have two loads that are MOA or less but those use quietly expensive projectiles. The first time I tried the Amax bullets the load I’m using now shot 1 MOA. However that load has not been able to repeat that performance with any consistency.

 

[AJC1]

165 grand slam with imr 4064 45 grains.

 

[DMW1116]

I haven’t seen it yet but maybe it will tighten up as the load goes up. Some powders seem to work better near max load and maybe IMR 4064 is one of them in this combination.

As it stands the minimum load from Speers data would hit a quarter at 100 yards 4 of 4 times. I’m shootings them out of my PA10. For a budget AR10 using budget bullets I’m ok with < 1.5 MOA. This powder and primer combo has just given better with 2 other bullets. The Amax does not play well with IMR 4064 in my rifle.

 

[AJC1]

I haven’t seen it yet but maybe it will tighten up as the load goes up. Some powders seem to work better near max load and maybe IMR 4064 is one of them in this combination.

As it stands the minimum load from Speers data would hit a quarter at 100 yards 4 of 4 times. I’m shootings them out of my PA10. For a budget AR10 using budget bullets I’m ok with < 1.5 MOA. This powder and primer combo has just given better with 2 other bullets. The Amax does not play well with IMR 4064 in my rifle.

At some point on the schedule is the 168eldm I hope it's a winner. I don't see Speer around here or I'd shoot a lot more of them.

 

[Charlie98]

Just my experience… the lesser expensive bullets just don’t shoot as well as the SMK. I’ve not gone beyond the SMK to Berger, etc, because, quite frankly, I don’t have the desire to spend more money and components. I’ve shot the Nosler CC against the SMK, and in 2 rifles the SMK edged out the NCC. I do have a box of Hornadys, they are up next, but I don’t really expect them to shoot better than the SMK. There’s a reason they are so popular.

you also might want to rethink your primer. In my bolt gun, with IMR4064, the CCI #34 takes a toll on the accuracy… it just does, and even more so with TAC. I understand your reasons for using the #34 in the AR, but if you are really looking for absolute accuracy, you should reconsider.

 

[AJC1]

Just my experience… the lesser expensive bullets just don’t shoot as well as the SMK. I’ve not gone beyond the SMK to Berger, etc, because, quite frankly, I don’t have the desire to spend more money and components. I’ve shot the Nosler CC against the SMK, and in 2 rifles the SMK edged out the NCC. I do have a box of Hornadys, they are up next, but I don’t really expect them to shoot better than the SMK. There’s a reason they are so popular.

you also might want to rethink your primer. In my bolt gun, with IMR4064, the CCI #34 takes a toll on the accuracy… it just does, and even more so with TAC. I understand your reasons for using the #34 in the AR, but if you are really looking for absolute accuracy, you should reconsider.

I'm in no way saying that any of these loads compare with my 155 lapuas or 175smk. I also shoot cci 200 lpp. I have 1k of br2 and br4s that I am saving for matches. I haven't used the 34 so I don't know how it compares or what adjustments are needed for it.

 

[DMW1116]

I’m mostly using the #34s because that’s all that was available when I started reloading for this rifle. I use them some in 30-30 too. I just haven’t changed over to anything else.

I don’t shoot this rifle all that often, but Sierra’s price increases have made me look else where even though they deliver. I’m eyeing a 308 bolt gun for my next rifle and may well enjoy shooting it more than this one. I went on a quest for a long range pistol (>50 yard capable) and now that I found one I found I am not >50 yard capable with a handgun. Now I can look more into rifle territory.

 

[Blue68f100]

Something to try. When I'm shooting for max accuracy I hand feed, single shoot my AR's. What I found was with my 6.5 CM the feeding of the round bends the bullet, throwing the concentric off. Enough to kick the POI 3" high and 2" to the right at 300 yrds. So try testing hand loading the round and see if it improves. I have Bob Sleds for my AR to make it easy to single load. Just be aware you can have a slam fire releasing the bolt if it's not picking up a round from the magazine, with a std primer. I use the Fed GM XXX MAR primers. These are Federals primers designed for AR's, which are match quality.

 

[JFrank]

Something to try. When I'm shooting for max accuracy I hand feed, single shoot my AR's. What I found was with my 6.5 CM the feeding of the round bends the bullet, throwing the concentric off. Enough to kick the POI 3" high and 2" to the right at 300 yrds. So try testing hand loading the round and see if it improves. I have Bob Sleds for my AR to make it easy to single load. Just be aware you can have a slam fire releasing the bolt if it's not picking up a round from the magazine, with a std primer. I use the Fed GM XXX MAR primers. These are Federals primers designed for AR's, which are match quality.

I find your posting of bent bullets throwing concentricity off enough to send rounds that far out at 300 very interesting, I’m trying to picture in my little pea brain how that would be possible with modern chambers cut to such tight +- shop tolerances. I have my thoughts but I am curious how you get there and if you subscribe to the in-bore yaw theory ?
Thx
J

 

[Slamfire]

Keep using #34's in your gas gun. Use a more sensitive primer and hope the first time you get a slamfire, the muzzle is pointed away from anything that could get hurt. It will sure scare you, after dropping a round in the chamber, and hitting the bolt release, to create a divet just in front of your feet! I have used #34's for decades, and they shoot well in whatever rifle I used them in. This was a good 300 yard group with them in 30-06




I purchased hundreds of Speer Match 168's and they shot well. Can't say they were better or worse than Sierra Matchkings, or Nosler Matchkings. I purchased thousands of Sierra and Nosler and shot them in NRA competition, Nosler were cheaper at the time, and they all work great. The greatest source of inaccuracy was me, and my wind call, not these match bullets. They all shoot well out to 600 yards, but will tumble somewhere around 700 yards, once the bullet drops below super sonic. The 175 SMK is stable above and below super sonic, which is why I stocked up on them.