1851 and 1850 parts swapping

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WilliamFeldmann

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So I was sitting there thinking like Tucco and realized that the 1860 and the 1851 Colt models used the same frame block, and that block was recessed a bit at the front to accomodate the .44 cylinder. If I own a 1860, can I put a .36 cylinder and a navy barrel/rammer on it, the way I can put a 1851 grip frame on it?

As far as I know the only thing that would be a little "off" is that the cylider would clear more in the front, which would be purely asthetic.
 
If I own a 1860, can I put a .36 cylinder and a navy barrel/rammer on it
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Well, yes, maybe.

I have both an 1860 Army ,44 and an 1851 Navy .36, both made by Pietta. The Army was made in 1982, the Navy in 1977.

The Navy cylinder will fit on the Army arbor, although the clearance in the 'rebate' area is a bit tight. There was a small burr on the bolt hole in the frame and it bound up the cylinder until I dressed it out. No room to spare at all. The Army cylinder had no issue with the burr, so the Navy cylinder is just a couple thousandths bigger in diameter.

I did have a problem getting the Navy barrel assembly to fit on the Army cylinder arbor. It's very tight and would only go on a few hundredths of an inch. The Navy cylinder arbor miked .004 smaller in diameter than the Army cylinder arbor. That's small enough that the differences in ages might be the reason rather than any recurring design difference.

I did not succeed in putting the Navy barrel assembly fully on the Army arbor; I suspect I could have accomplished that without damaging the arbor or the Army's functionality by simply polishing the arbor, but decided not to try - I have no desire to swap parts between these guns on even a temporary basis.

Which brings me to the real question: why?
 
Why?

I have extra parts laying around from many assorted voyages into making others C&B CAS guns work better or easier. Namely more than a few .36 cylinders and barrel assemblys, even some of the shorter sheriff lengths as well as Army parts. But I don't have any extra frame blocks, and since that is the one part I can't seem to find for sale anywhere except in a $200+ new gun, I can't make use of them. I have finally conviced the better half that it's time I got a new gun and it is going to be my first Colt style. I was thinking that the 1860 could make use of the 1851/1861 parts that I have with minimal ordering of new parts and I could essentially have 2 or 3 different guns with a little time swapping parts.

Did you say that the navy cylinder was bigger than the army cylinder? Are you talking about the back near the nipples or the front? I was thinking that the rear of the 2 cylinders was the same and that the front 2/3 of the cylinder was bulked up for the .44. Am I wrong in this?

All my parts and the new gun will be from the last 2/3 years.
 
In theory you can exchange 1851 Navy parts onto an 1860 frame made by the same maker. In practice tolerance stacks may give you a problem - as was noted above. The Italian makers often, if not always do some fitting on each individual revolver. That's why they, like Colt during the 19th century, serial numbered the frame, barrel, backstrap, trigger guard - and sometimes the cylinder. It insures that everything comes back together after the finish is applied.

So, taking the example above. If the cylinder was too tight you could ream or polish the center hole. If it was rubbing on the frame you could relieve the frame at the place the rubbing was occuring. You might have to do some work on the ratchet teeth so that the cylinder would carry up correctly with the hand inside the frame, and possibly narrow the ball on the cylinder bolt to that it go into the notches in the cylinder. If the barrel wouldn't go onto the cylinder pin you would have to ream or polish the hole in the barrel, and possibly do something with the two little holes in the bottom of the barrel that match two pins in the frame. It is quite likely something would have to be done on the barrel wedge.

The backstrap and Trigger guard might have to be polished while on the frame to get a perfect match between the three parts.

In short, you could do it, but there might, or might not be a lot of work involved, and when you were done the question of refinishing would come up.

So it comes down to the question of how much work do you want to do?

Another thought: Look around for a second-hand 1851 Navy or '60 Army that's in need of work. I've seen them go for as little as $50.00 at flea markets, and they'll do O.K. for a project where you will be rebuilding the gun anyway.
 
Another thought: Look around for a second-hand 1851 Navy or '60 Army that's in need of work.
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Absolutely. Old Fuff always has great advice and he's hit the nail on the head here. My brother-in-law rescued the .44 Navy in the picture below from an auction for $50. It was literally covered in dirt and rust, falling apart, even the grips didn't fit. It just takes a little TLC.

722.jpg
 
Yeah, I like winter projects as much as anybody, but if I can find a old used or even a decent but dirty gun, I'll probably just do that. I was more interested in if I 'COULD' do it. Thanks for the answers guys
 
I might mention in passing that an 1851 Navy can become an 1861 by switching barrel assemblies, and that a 5 1/2" (so called) Sheriff Model barrel can be put on a similar revolver that came with a 7 1/2" length. Be sure to stick with the same maker if you buy parts. There is no end to the custom guns you can create. :cool:
 
OK, I'm confused. Even if you could put the cylinder from an 1851 .36 onto the frame of an 1860 .44, what would you then do with it?
I know I musta missed something.
OK, I got it - I missed the part about the new barrel.
 
Well it's sort of neat to be able to switch a '60 Army .44 into a '51 Navy .36, just to get the goat of certain individuals who are always bragging about their (misnamed) '58 Remingtons where you need a benchvise to change barrels... :evil: :neener: :D
 
OK, I got it - I missed the part about the new barrel.
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According to Gatofeo a Colt revolver doesn't even need a barrel! :D

EASE OF LOADING --- In my experience, the Colt is more forgiving during the loading procedure. If you can't quite get a ball down past the mouth of the chamber, because of an accidental overcharge, you can remove the ball by firing the Colt without its barrel assembly.
Remove the barrel assembly by tapping the wedge from right to left all the way.
B. Place caps on all loaded chambers to prevent flashover and deftly rotate the cylinder by hand and cock the hammer to bring the offending cylinder under the cocked hammer.
Obviously, you must be very careful when doing this. Keep your hand and fingers away from the front of the cylinder.
C. Fire the ball out of the cylinder to clear the chamber.
I've done this a number of times.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=223515&highlight=hold+cylinder
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I always wondered if you could make a barrel sleeve so you could shoot .36 in a .44. But I'm a dreamer with no technical know-how.
Although, a Ruger Old Army in .36 would be nice.
 
Well it's sort of neat to be able to switch a '60 Army .44 into a '51 Navy .36, just to get the goat of certain individuals who are always bragging about their (misnamed) '58 Remingtons where you need a benchvise to change barrels...
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Boy did you stick your foot in deep that time Old Fuff...HeeHee!
Mix and match Colts make um any kind a Custom Colt you want.?:O)

Well sorry but Remington Owners would kinda rather have one of each, one for each hand:D, and really have no need to remove ones barrel:cool:

You just Tucoized Colts and said you could make Custom Colts of anything you want. So is a Pietta 1851 Navy .44 cal Brass frame a non existant replica? Or made from mixed Colt parts? ;)

SG:O)
 
Idaram,I couldn' find them?

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Idaram,I couldn' find them?
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Thanks Andy....
 
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Well sorry but Remington Owners would kinda rather have one of each, one for each hand, and really have no need to remove ones barrel
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I just knew that when the Remi fans read my remarks mob violence would be coming my way.

Now you do understand that the Old Fuff has NEVER, EVER done anything in the way of customizing a New Model Army (Model of '63 - not '58) :neener:

Well not never, ever... just... well... hardly ever???? :evil:
 
I always wondered if you could make a barrel sleeve so you could shoot .36 in a .44. But I'm a dreamer with no technical know-how.
Although, a Ruger Old Army in .36 would be nice.
Click to expand...

It can be done, using the same methods employed to make .22 conversion units for center-fire revolvers, but it would be expensive. Much easier to do on an open-top Colt because you can remove the barrel, but if you're going to the trouble (on a Colt) you mightiest well switch barrels.

In the case of the Ruger, the chambers on a second cylinder could be sleeved, and the barrel replaced.
 
You just Tucoized Colts and said you could make Custom Colts of anything you want. So is a Pietta 1851 Navy .44 cal Brass frame a non existant replica? Or made from mixed Colt parts?
Click to expand...

This whole thing started back when I was talking to Col. Sam, and I said, "Sam, what you really, really need to make is a.... " and the darned fool wouldn't listen. Got on his high horse and made out that he knew more about revolvers then I did. Well so much for him... I just went out and did my own thing. :D
 
This whole thing started back when I was talking to Col. Sam
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Well, let's see, that would make you just a little older than me...
So, how hard (or easy) is it to remove the barrel from a Colt without doing damage?
As far as the Ruger, there's a company in Texas that makes replacement cylinders for ROA's (they advertised here a few times) and I did ask them about making a ROA in .36, and the owner said they were working on, or planning, a caliber conversion setup for the ROA but it would be a little bigger than .36. I haven't heard anything about it since.
 
I would think that sleeving a Ruger cylinder would cost less then making a whole new one. Removing a Colt's barrel is easy, and you won't make dings on the side of the barrel if you use something to move the wedge that's softer then the barrel itself. Too many folks have claw hammers... :cuss:

The problem with a .36 caliber conversion of Ruger's is that too few people are interested in one. Therefore small shops are unwilling to tool up to produce them.

The way it can be done is to replace the barrel with what amounts to a tube, with a thread on the inside at the muzzle end. Inside of this tube you have a rifled barrel that slides in from the front and then is screwed in. Think of removable choke tubes in a shotgun barrel.
 
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