Finely got out my Pietta 51 .36 cal Navy yesterday. Had a can of FFF triple 7 that needs to be shot up to make room for a new supply of BP. Anyway this is the first time this revolver has ever been shot. I tried to starting on the lite side 10grs powder, wad, and .375 rd ball. First six shots at 30 feet was 6" high and 5" to the left. 15 grs same thing. 20grs same thing, 25grs same thing. No matter what I loaded in it the revovlver shoots 6" high, and 5" to the left. Is this what you have come to get use to when it comes to the 1851 .36 cal Navy. I hung another target and did the samething all over again. I'll give triple 7 one thing I was able to fire 48 shots without cleaning it. But what should I hold out and try with Prodex P, or dose it sound like I'm going to have to get out the file and work on the hammer.
1851 Navy
- Thread starter Dellbert
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Fingers McGee
Member
Sounds like time to get out the power tools 
Get someone else to shoot it first & see where they are hitting before you go to making modifications to the hammer nose. It's possible you are causing some of it. Also, you could try a taller front sight. !/8 inch brazing rod chucked in a dremel, about 10 minutes, and a couple jewelers files will make a new sight. IIRC, the Pietta front sights are just press fit. A little red locktite and a brass faced hammer will set a new one quite well.
Get someone else to shoot it first & see where they are hitting before you go to making modifications to the hammer nose. It's possible you are causing some of it. Also, you could try a taller front sight. !/8 inch brazing rod chucked in a dremel, about 10 minutes, and a couple jewelers files will make a new sight. IIRC, the Pietta front sights are just press fit. A little red locktite and a brass faced hammer will set a new one quite well.
Hi Fingers. I'm dummy when it comes to gunsmithing. I can take them apart and put them back together. What is "IIRC", and a !/8 inch brazing rod? I have the dremel tool. What do I use for the taller sight. Do you think It will shot the same with Swiss, or Goax, or Prodex-P. I was plaining to try pro-P to see if it would shot the same. The one thing that got my goat was the revolver was still shooting just fine after 48 shots, with the triple 7. Never would've got that far with any other powder. So if I can get it to shoot straight it's a keeper. I took it apart this morning and cleaned it back up. looks like it's never been shot. I greased the main parts on the inside, and put it all back together. I like this little Colt. Fingers do you have a picture of one that's been worked on? anybody else out here got a couple pics I can look at, to get the idea of how to go about this.
arcticap
Member
IIRC means "If I recall correctly"
For 1/8" brazing rod, he may mean brass rod. At least some folks use brass rod as a base material for a replacement front sight.
A new taller sight can be made to replace the old sight which can be filed down to adjust to point of aim. But there will still be a windage problem which may be eaiser to deal with if the barrel is dovetailed and a new front sight is installed that has a dovetailed base. Then the new front sight can be adjusted by drifting it.
What can result is that there will be a replacement front sight that shoots to point of aim but which is noticeably taller than the original. Some folks may not like how high it ends up being while others won't mind. That may depend on whether it's going to be getting drawn from a holster on a regular basis or not.
But a combination of a deeper hammer notch and a slightly taller front sight can serve to minimize how high the front sight needs to be.
For 1/8" brazing rod, he may mean brass rod. At least some folks use brass rod as a base material for a replacement front sight.
A new taller sight can be made to replace the old sight which can be filed down to adjust to point of aim. But there will still be a windage problem which may be eaiser to deal with if the barrel is dovetailed and a new front sight is installed that has a dovetailed base. Then the new front sight can be adjusted by drifting it.
What can result is that there will be a replacement front sight that shoots to point of aim but which is noticeably taller than the original. Some folks may not like how high it ends up being while others won't mind. That may depend on whether it's going to be getting drawn from a holster on a regular basis or not.
But a combination of a deeper hammer notch and a slightly taller front sight can serve to minimize how high the front sight needs to be.
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I've had a plethoria of Navies. Here's what I have done on different guns:
--Ground the rear notch a little wider and deeper with a Dremel cutting disc. Makes a better sight picture.
--Ground the tip of the hammer off in order to "lower" the rear sight and then Dremeled the notch deeper & wider. Be careful that you don't grind off too much or the barrel will block the front sight as mentioned before. You can sight down the barrel and see what kind of clearance you have to start with. Some guns don't have any. A longer or shorter trigger may raise or lower the arc of the hammer and thus change the heigth of the hammer but I have not intentionally done that but noticed more hammer above the barrel line after swapping out a trigger for a shorter one once.
--Filed off the bead very flat and epoxied a taller shotgun bead onto it.
--Filed off the front sight (or lifted it out of the hole) and epoxied a cut off #4X3/4" brass flat head wood screw (upside down). This fix made a nice tall bead/post that a little cold bluing "ages" it nicely and it looks good if you don't goop too much epoxy onto the barrel. Cut, size, & shape the "bead" before you glue it on.
--Have a gunsmith dovetail a front sight but only if the gun shoots way off to one side (too far off to merely cut the rear notch over a little). If the front sight needs to be drifted way over to the side, you're gonna get the creeps looking at the sight picture. I carefully (as in gorilla) bent the barrel to the left on one gun to make it shoot to POA. Looks alot better than having a drifted sight hanging off the side of the barrel.
--Ground the rear notch a little wider and deeper with a Dremel cutting disc. Makes a better sight picture.
--Ground the tip of the hammer off in order to "lower" the rear sight and then Dremeled the notch deeper & wider. Be careful that you don't grind off too much or the barrel will block the front sight as mentioned before. You can sight down the barrel and see what kind of clearance you have to start with. Some guns don't have any. A longer or shorter trigger may raise or lower the arc of the hammer and thus change the heigth of the hammer but I have not intentionally done that but noticed more hammer above the barrel line after swapping out a trigger for a shorter one once.
--Filed off the bead very flat and epoxied a taller shotgun bead onto it.
--Filed off the front sight (or lifted it out of the hole) and epoxied a cut off #4X3/4" brass flat head wood screw (upside down). This fix made a nice tall bead/post that a little cold bluing "ages" it nicely and it looks good if you don't goop too much epoxy onto the barrel. Cut, size, & shape the "bead" before you glue it on.
--Have a gunsmith dovetail a front sight but only if the gun shoots way off to one side (too far off to merely cut the rear notch over a little). If the front sight needs to be drifted way over to the side, you're gonna get the creeps looking at the sight picture. I carefully (as in gorilla) bent the barrel to the left on one gun to make it shoot to POA. Looks alot better than having a drifted sight hanging off the side of the barrel.
tpelle
Member
Be VERY, VERY CAREFUL with the Dremel. Probably more guns of all types have been ruined with Dremel tools than with any other implement.
You can ruin a gun with a file, too, but it takes you so long to do it you figure out that you're screwing up soon enough to stop before you REALLY screw up.
You can ruin a gun with a file, too, but it takes you so long to do it you figure out that you're screwing up soon enough to stop before you REALLY screw up.
Fingers McGee
Member
What Arcticap, Hellgate and Tpelle said +1. Unfortunately, I don't have any pictures handy of front sights.
Point of impact (POI) will change somewhat depending on the brand and amount of powder being used. Befoe you make any permanent changes to the gun, you need to decide on what you're going to use. I shoot 20 grains of real BP in my .36s regardless of brand. At CAS distances, there's not much difference in POI using GOEX, Grafs, Swiss, Kik or Scheutzen powders, so even though I regulated my front and rear sights using GOEX loads, I can use the same POA and be assured I'll ring the steel.
Point of impact (POI) will change somewhat depending on the brand and amount of powder being used. Befoe you make any permanent changes to the gun, you need to decide on what you're going to use. I shoot 20 grains of real BP in my .36s regardless of brand. At CAS distances, there's not much difference in POI using GOEX, Grafs, Swiss, Kik or Scheutzen powders, so even though I regulated my front and rear sights using GOEX loads, I can use the same POA and be assured I'll ring the steel.
Thinks fellows. I can use all this info. I'll get back to you when I get it fixed. Who knows I'm sure there are others out here that could use the info. Maybe not right now but it's gona happen again. This may help them out to. Oh Fingers I like the real black powder to. I believe it is cleaner than all this other stuff. I'm out of Coax.
Fingers McGee
Member
Dellbert, here are some pictures of some of my '51 showing hammer notches and front sight posts. First picture is a pair of 2nd Gen C series Colt '51 Navies. Both hammers have had the notches widened and deepened to get POI down. The one on the right had the notched widened to the right to get the POI moved over.
Picture 2 is a pair of Pietta US Marshall Navy hammers from the back
Picture 3 is the same US Marshall model hammers from the front. Notice how far down the notch has been opened up (Pay no attention to the nipple indents on the hammer face. One of these days I'm gonna fix that)
Picture 4 is a comparison of front sight posts. The one on the left is a US Marshall Navy and the one on the right is a Uberti/Navy Arms Frontiersman. The frontiersman shot POA out of the box so neither the hammer or front sight has been fooled with.
Picture 2 is a pair of Pietta US Marshall Navy hammers from the back
Picture 3 is the same US Marshall model hammers from the front. Notice how far down the notch has been opened up (Pay no attention to the nipple indents on the hammer face. One of these days I'm gonna fix that)
Picture 4 is a comparison of front sight posts. The one on the left is a US Marshall Navy and the one on the right is a Uberti/Navy Arms Frontiersman. The frontiersman shot POA out of the box so neither the hammer or front sight has been fooled with.
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Thinks for the pics Fingers thats what I needed to be able to see what to do with the hammer. Say the front sight on the Pitta revolvers are pressed into the barrel and that's it? Is there some kind of trick to pulling them out. I have done nothing till I know or plain it out in my head just how I want to go about it. From what I can see from your pics, most of the problem can be fixed by working with the hammer. Heck I could live with it shooting just a couple inches high long as its shooting straight. Thinks a lot.
rcflint
Member
I installed an Uberti Remington dovetail sight on a 51 Navy, then shortened it to hit POA and reshaped the profile. The Uberti sight dovetail is 74 degrees, the cutter available from Brownells.
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