1858 Remington newbie questions

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Candiru

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Hi there. I've been lurking this forum for quite some time because I was planning on buying a BP pistol. I happened to mention my plans to my father, and he surprised me by giving me his 1858 Remington New Model Army, which is a Spanish replica made by Santa Barbara. What a great dad.

I've read up all the stickies and gotten a general idea of what to do and how to do it, but there are a couple specific questions I couldn't find through searching the archives.

My first question has to do with the correct ball diameter to use with this revolver. I've taken a caliper to the chambers and bore and found them both to be .440. How much over this diameter should I go to get the best accuracy?

My other question might be kind of stupid, but how do you use the spout on a powder flask? I understand you stopper the spout, invert the flask, then dispense into the spout, but what do you use to stop the spout? A thumb? Also, can you recommend a powder flask and compatible spouts that will let me swap spouts for both 25-grain and 30-grain loads? (The latter will be, as the Uberti manual puts it, "for showing off.") I'd prefer an authentically-styled brass powder flask, just for the historical cachet.

That's about it for now, although I'll probaby have more questions later. Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.
 
The way I was taught to use a flask is to put your index finger over the spout, invert the flask and operate the lever (that lets out the powder) with your thumb.

With the lever still open (and your index finger still over the spout) give the flask a little shake and then take your thumb off the lever cutting off the powder flow. Next turn the flask back the right way up and take your index finger off the spout. Do a visual check to make sure the powder is at the top of the spout ... if it isn't just repeat the procedure and then pour it into the cylinder. Then repeat etc and have lots of fun
 
Have heard it is not recommended to use a powder flask for safety reasons, it is forbidden even to use powder flasks at all ranges here as far as I know.
I always use pre-measured amounts of powder in seperate little containers.
When after shooting some residue is still glowing in the cylinder, or in the barrel when you're shooting a musket, the powder flask could turn into a granade.

Any thruth to this story?
Anyone ever has his powder flask explode?
 
No truth at all. I think what you're confusing is that you should never pour straight from the large container into the cylinder, as this could become a hand grenade. With the metal powder flasks, the valve cutting off the powder flow separates the powder inside the flask from the powder in the spout. Should there be an ignition, it would be contained within the spout.
 
flask safety

The flask prohibition is really aimed at muzzle loading rifles, not the cap and ball revolvers. I see no reason not to use a flask/spout measure to load the cylinders. There is little to no chance of any "burning embers" in a revolver chamber.

You can easily inspect the chambers prior to loading by looking down to the bottom as you rotate the cylinder.
 
I do wait a little bit before reloading. Once the smoke is gone, though, the cylinder is clear. And you can always look in the cylinder chambers.

This is not possible with a musket, of course.
 
Loading from the flask directly...

I have personally witnessed (did not participate, however) in a case of "lighting up the flask".

The issue, as stated above, is with long rifles/shotguns and to a lesser extent single shot pistols as opposed to revolvers. Those weapons can retain glowing embers; inverting the flask over the barrel and pouring directly onto those embers will cause a flash back up to the flask. If the valve is still open the flash will enter the flask, and at that point you have a classic grenade.

Closing the valve before pouring from the flask spout mitigates, but does not eliminate the chance of igniting the powder in the flask. Far better to use a separate small powder measure to both ensure the proper amount of powder and eliminate the grenade completely.

In the case I witnessed the flask apparently launched from the shooter's hand before it exploded, perhaps propelled by the ignition in the spout. He was seriously burned on his hand, arm and the side of his face but did not lose any fingers. His safety glasses and ear protection did their jobs. Also fortunately the flask itself ripped open along a seam and did not shatter into fragments, a fact that probably saved several of us from serious injury. The spout and cap to the flask were found intact several days later about 50 yards from where we were shooting.

This happened about 30 years ago. I've never seen anyone load a long gun directly from the flask since.
 
Saw Powder Horn Rocket one day at Friendship many years ago. Guy was attempting to load his flinter after a shot and tipped the horn up to dispense powder, ember got to the powder and the powder horn became a rocket tied to the offender with the strap, it literally did circles around the guy' shoulder and under his arm until it burned the powder up, shooting fire out the end. Luckily it was almost empty and it lasted about 3 seconds but it was spectacular while it lasted.

On that subject I also saw one chain fire at a ML clube one day it was loud and quick. All went at once(probably not, but so close it sounded like one roar). Gun wasn't hurt and neither was the shooter, but he was really weak in the knees for a few minutes afterward.
 
Powder measure

By all means, get a powder flask. Then also get yourself a powder measure. This is a tube with a means to have an adjustable measure of powder poured in and then poured out.

The reason I suggest this is that shooting is a lot more fun if you are hitting what you are aiming at, and most guns will develop a life of their own, working better with one measure of powder than with another. You might find that Remington copy gives you the best accuracy with 18 grains as opposed to 20, or 23, or whatever. :)

A flask lets you throw one weight of charge generally, but using the measure with a flask lets you adjust the amount of powder. Takes a little longer to load, but the hits you get when you find the right load will make you happy and impress your friends, who will think that you really know what you are doing! :evil:

You can find powder measures at most good gun stores or major chains that deal in black powder guns. Most are fairly inexpensive and easy to use. Check them out.

The Doc is out now. :cool:
 
Start with a .451 ball, and if that proves too small, go to .454 or .457.
Click to expand...

I'd skip the .451 size and go straight to the .454.
Click to expand...

Do you recommend these sizes even for a gun whose bores measure almost exactly 0.440"? From reading reviews it seems like most modern replicas measure around 0.45", which seems a better diameter for .451, .454, or .457 balls.

I guess as a general question, given bore and chamber diameters of X, how far above X should I go in diameter for balls?
 
Try them all

There is no "rule of thumb" for how much oversize the ball should be (that I know of). Generally, one loads the ball and observes two things: whether there is a small ring of lead shaved off the ball and how much force it takes to produce it.

If you don't get a lead ring, that's not acceptable - the ball is too small, so first establish that the ball produces a ring. Then evaluate how difficult it is to get the ring. You want it to take a firm but not heavy push on the loading lever. Too much force might damage the lever or lever mechanism and suggests the ball is too large. Once the ring is shaved off the ball conforms to the chamber diameter, so all you should need to overcome is creating the ring.

Once that's done you might conclude that the right size ball is the smallest one that produces a ring. Wrong. The right size ball is the one that is most accurate for your gun, and to establish that you need to shoot them. That's when the fun begins. Lots of variables get involved: powder charge, type of powder, powder compression, chamber lube and filler material, fouling in the barrel, what you had for breakfast, the way you hold your mouth...

The fun is that you get to keep shooting - you never run out of reasons to go shoot the gun and try something to improve your experience. And then you get to come back here and tell everyone what you found out, and get their experiences. This process never stops - I'm still learning after 30 years.

Bottom line - there is usually no single right answer to most questions. The fun is in finding the right combination for you and your gun.
 
I have had my 1858 since christmas and have not taken it out yet. My concern is putting on the caps. I guess I'm leery of having them go off as I put them on the nipple. I would like to test fire with just the caps on so I can get used to putting them on. How much noise do they create? I ask this as I would like to do this in my back yard.

Mike
 
Noise of a cap

About as much noise as one of the old cap guns we used as a kid. It's a noticeable "pop", about like hitting a table top with a ruler. Does not sound like a gunshot at all. I can snap caps in the basement while my wife is watching television without her hearing it at all - the only time she notices is if there is no other noise in the house.

As for putting caps on the nipple - I've never had one go off during installation. It takes a sharp rap with the explosive material in contact with the top of the nipple, something you cannot do in the normal process of pressing the cap into place or pinching it to hold it on (if necessary). I did see one person set one off when he used a dowel to seat the cap and hit the end of the dowel with a hammer "to ensure it was on". There is no end to the inventiveness of some people.
 
Mikiec,

Like Mykeal said; Don't worry about the percussion caps. You're safe.
They are unable go off when you push them on with your fingers.
Sometimes they don't even go off when the spring in your gun that flips the hammer onto the cap is too weak.
Even a weak spring gives a much harder slam onto the cap then you will ever be able to do with your finger.

Take that gun out and have fun!
Hildo
 
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