Question about Pyrodex vs blackpowder

Status
Not open for further replies.
H

highpower

Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2011
Messages
782
Location
Reno NV
Okay, here is my dilemma; I have read that you load Pyrodex by volume rather than weight to equal blackpowder loads.

I recently bought one of the Italian reproduction Colt powder flasks. The tube on it is stamped 24 gr.. I have a pound of Pyrodex P which is supposed to be the equivalent of 3F blackpowder.

When I weigh the charge that the flask loads into the spout, it weighs 15.7 grains. I don't have any 3F blackpowder to check if the spout actually throws 24 grains or if the spout is mislabeled.

So my question is, is there really that much difference between the weight of Pyrodex and regular blackpowder? I am ready to shoot my new/used second generation Colt 1860 Army revolver, but I don't want to screw anything up. I am reasonably sure that 16 grains of powder will move the bullet through the barrel, but I don't want to go through the effort of shooting/cleaning the gun just to have a charge that dribbles the bullet out of the barrel.
 
Good morning,
I have an older 1860 Army repro ( well, the Goon has it but anyway ) and regularly shoot 24 - 30 grain loads with a wonderwad over the powder charge and under the ball. I use Pyrodex for these loads and have no issue with of the load or revolver. Check your spout for the correct grain throw.
regards!
 
Both are measured volumetrically, not by weight. Sometimes the weight to volume can be very far off when comparing a substitute to black powder. I throw 24 grains by volume of Pyrodex P when I shoot my steel framed Remington 1858 in 44. I would throw less if it were a brass framed revolver. I could go hotter (and have) but it is a fun gun for me, not a serious defensive firearm.
 
24 gr by volume!!! All black powder or substitute is loaded by volume. Never weight!
 
So my question is, is there really that much difference between the weight of Pyrodex and regular blackpowder?
Click to expand...

Yes, there is. And that's why Hodgdon's instructions call for us to load by VOLUME.

It's my experience that the stamped numbers on spouts is pretty close. Like within a couple or three grains when you weigh a drop of proper black powder from the spout.

Some of this is based on the depression left by our finger on the end of the spout. When you fill the spout and remove your finger after the flask is back upright there's always a divot in the powder level. And near as I can tell it's often a two or three grain size divot. If you were to use a flat seal I'm willing to bet that the spouts would throw much closer a weight to the value stamped on the side.
 
It's my experience that the stamped numbers on spouts is pretty close. Like within a couple or three grains when you weigh a drop of proper black powder from the spout.
Click to expand...

Thanks this is the info I was looking for. I weighed the Pyrodex charge just because I had to know what it actually weighed. I know, unnecessary, but I am kind of anal that way.

I guess I have been reloading smokeless ammo for so long that I was having trouble wrapping my brain around the thought that the volume would be the same while the weight of the charge would be so much different.
 
A selling point for Pyrodex is that a given volume gives the same energy as that volume of BP but weighs less so you get more loads per pound. Skip the scale and just go with spouts or whatever powder measure you use. It works.

(But I have to admit that being careful with charge weights of smokeless powder for so many years, it feels odd NOT weighing charges. If I wasn't so used to BP shooting and volume measures, it would be a bigger problem.)

Jeff
 
....I guess I have been reloading smokeless ammo for so long that I was having trouble wrapping my brain around the thought that the volume would be the same while the weight of the charge would be so much different.
Click to expand...

Except for rifle charging where the reloader weighs ever charge we all use this same weight to volume expedient with all our smokeless loading. You load handgun ammo using a measure that drops a volume. We just adjust it to drop a volume that is consistently pretty close to the proper weight for the powder being used. Same for those of us that use the Lee Dipper measures to dole out a volume of powder that is "close enough" to a desired weight.

What makes black powder so unique in this regard is that because black powder has maintained a very small range of density over the last few centuries we've come to measure it by the volume that equates to a desired weight without having to check it with a scale like we must do with smokeless.

It's also interesting to note that the serious BPCR folk still weigh their Holy Black for each charge. A "close enough" volume for them just isn't close enough.

But it's hard to pack along a scale when we're out walking a black powder trail and loading while "on the hoof".... :)

Where I can see knowing the weight of the Pyrodex dropped by a known size black powder volume measure is when setting up to reload on a press that uses an adjustable powder measure. Then you can use the flask spout to drop a charge by volume and weigh it and then adjust the powder bar to drop that same weight. Now THAT is just about the only good reason I can see for needing to know how much a "black powder" volume of Pyrodex or 777 weighs.
 
So my question is, is there really that much difference between the weight of Pyrodex and regular blackpowder?
Click to expand...

In short, yes.
Hodgdon says Pyrodex is about 70% the bulk density of real black. You show 65% which is not bad because nearly all fixed volumetric measures throw light.
 
I have used Pyrodex in percussion revolvers. I don't worry about it being mire corrosive than real BP because I clean my guns. The only complaint I had was sometimes I got delayed ignition, a "pop-bang" because Pyrodex has a higher ignition temperature than real BP. So now I use Pyrodex in black powder cartridges and shotshells, and use real black powder in my percussion revolvers.

For making noise and casual plinking Pyrodex works fine.
 
As a side note, don't use any petroleum-based lube that will be exposed to powder fouling.

Use an organic lube such as Bore Butter or Thompson Center's black powder lube, or the home made lubes you can find on this site.

Use a generous amount on the arbor pin and down the bore to make your experience more pleasant.

Clean-up will be easier, as well.

Have fun...!
 
"As a side note, don't use any petroleum-based lube that will be exposed to powder fouling."

The one known exception is the Gatofeo's #1 lube, which is a historic BP lube recipe for outside lubed bullets of days gone by. The recipe is (by weight):
1 part paraffin wax (Gulf Wax, which has a bit of petroleum in it)
1 part mutton tallow
1/2 part beeswax

This is melted and mixed together in a double boiler.

I use this on wads, pistol bullets, and rifle conicals, and it works quite well. Gatofeo claimed to have tried just about everything under the sun and found this to be the best. But then this would only be used if you were shooting conicals in your muzzleloader pistol.
 
:cool:
highpower said:
Okay, here is my dilemma; I have read that you load Pyrodex by volume rather than weight to equal blackpowder loads.

I recently bought one of the Italian reproduction Colt powder flasks. The tube on it is stamped 24 gr.. I have a pound of Pyrodex P which is supposed to be the equivalent of 3F blackpowder.

When I weigh the charge that the flask loads into the spout, it weighs 15.7 grains. I don't have any 3F blackpowder to check if the spout actually throws 24 grains or if the spout is mislabeled.

So my question is, is there really that much difference between the weight of Pyrodex and regular blackpowder? I am ready to shoot my new/used second generation Colt 1860 Army revolver, but I don't want to screw anything up. I am reasonably sure that 16 grains of powder will move the bullet through the barrel, but I don't want to go through the effort of shooting/cleaning the gun just to have a charge that dribbles the bullet out of the barrel.
Click to expand...
Load by volume measure. Pyrodex is much lighter than Black powder which is why you get more shots per "pound" of pyrodex than you will black powder.... a Plus. It is an EQUIVALENT.... and it's by VOLUME... Hope this helps some... Good luck with this shooting experience of yours...

Aloha... :cool:
 
There is nothing wrong with paraffin wax. However, a petroleum based oil will be problematic.

At any rate, you can't really check whether your sprout drops 24 grains by volume, because a volumetric grain doesn't exist as a standard. Your sprout could throw 20 grains (by weight, that's what a grain is after all), my sprout from another manufacturer could throw 24 grains and we couldn't say which is "right".

For BP substitutes, they are basically equal to BP per unit of volume, whether you are using volumetric grains of any sort, or ccs or whatnot.
 
Thanks everyone for the information. I am going to shoot it sometime this week and I am really looking forward to making some smoke.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

G
  • Locked
Pyrodex P vs Blackpowder
Replies
21
Views
4K
rodwha
R
T
  • Locked
"Calibrating" Powder Flask
2
Replies
30
Views
4K
Foto Joe
F
A
  • Locked
Pyrodex weight, powder measures?
Replies
24
Views
11K
ArmedBear
A
G
  • Locked
'Nother blackpowder newb question
Replies
4
Views
764
grislyatoms
G
B
  • Locked
ffg vrs fffg. volume vrs weight?
2
Replies
29
Views
5K
Ginormous
G
Back
Top