19 year old female fends off attacker but is found guilty

[mnrivrat]

Well it is certainly clear that many folks here have never had to be in fear of great bodily harm.

A typical 19 year old female, up against a male (43) with a mask on, has to bring all she has to the fight. If she doesn't ,she will loose .

It doesn't surprise me at all that she continued the fight until she was sure the danger was past and the adriniline. She didn't start it - he did. And given that same event where she would have been allowed to carry a firearm she would have been justified in using deadly force . The attaker is not only still alive, but apparently has no legal problems to face. She did nothing wrong if the story is correct.

Conwict : A little more info please - how will the girl get access to the funds ? Are you in contact with her ?

 

[Ole Coot]

I really don't care if she had the 7th Calvary backing her. I was trained to defend you attack, no rules, nothing I can't use. Above all I was taught to at least break the person's ankle by stomping on it to prevent them getting up. I am just plain stubborn. I refuse to be anyone's whipping boy. Stupid laws!!

 

[hso]

I was able to get in touch with the journalist who wrote the article. I just got off the phone with him and he told me that he's had several calls expressing frustration at the injustice of the court.

I explained if the paper or Ms. Burleigh or her attorney would set up an account that he would verify as valid, there were many people interested in donating to help pay Ms. Burleigh's fine. Rory assured me that he'd be getting in touch with Ms. Burleigh's attorney letting them know of the interest in offsetting the expense of the fine. Perhaps the members of THR and other sites will be able to use those donations to take some of the sting out of the court's decision. If we're very good at this we might be able to provide enough additional funds that she and her attorney can appeal the ruling and have it reversed or reduced to a lesser charge since a "serious assault" conviction will follow her the rest of her life like a felony conviction would here.

Anyone wanting the send a word of encouragement to Ms. Burleigh through the newspaper can contact Rory Reynolds at <[email protected]>. The more noise we make the more attention is given to this injustice and, perhaps, others will help.

Letting her attacker go "scott free" while convicting her of a crime is unreasonable.

Rory,

It was good speaking with you today.

It is reassuring that others have expressed their frustration with Ms. Burleigh's plight. Charging, prosecuting and convicting her while allowing her assailant to get off "scott free" is particularly unjust. At the very least the courts should have treated his stalking/assault as a separate case and put him in prison for attempted rape, assault and stalking instead of releasing him to do this to another young woman again some day.

As soon as her attorney or Ms. Burleigh or the newspaper establishes a PayPal, or equivalent, account to receive funds there are several people interested in donating money to help her pay the fine. Please let me know via email with a link to the valid donation site and I'll forward the information.

Also, the question of what impact this will have on Ms. Burleigh's future is of especial interest. For her attacker to experience no effect and her suffer every time her criminal record comes up will be of great interest.

The Sun picked up the story in the UK - http://thesun.mobi/thescottishsun/news/3603315/Girl-nicked-for-hitting-attacker.html?mob=1

A quick "google" for websites in the US that are discussing this are -
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread709754/pg1
http://talkrational.org/showthread.php?t=39422
http://lunaticoutpost.com/Topic-Girl-fined-for-fighting-back-at-masked-man
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=595098

Regards,




On May 30, 2011, at 3:32 AM, Rory Reynolds wrote:

Thanks for getting in touch. Quite a few people have because they were so frustrated to read what had happened. Would you be able to give me a call this morning on 0131 620 8752 and we can sort something out? Leave a message with a colleague if I'm not at my desk and I'll get back to you.

I'm sure Ms Burleigh would appreciate the gesture. I know she was very upset at what had happened.

All the best

Rory


From: hso
Sent: 29-05-2011 16:32
To: Rory Reynolds
Subject: Claire Burleigh case

Greetings,

A growing number of people are interested in helping Ms. Burleigh pay the £500 fine levied by the court.

How would we go about doing this? Can we pay the court directly by electronic means? Must we send funds to Ms. Burleigh for her to pay the fine? Is anyone in the UK attempting to contribute to a fund to pay her fine that we could participate with?

Thank you for your response.

v/r

 

[Sky]

Coot you are a Hoot! A person with a mask on at a residence is different than someone who you meet in a bar and get in a fight with. The bar fight you might have a choice to avoid. A masked assailant at the front door limits the choices and kinda does away with the avoidance option. Glad those of you who have taken time to read this thread and responded with heart felt thoughts got something out of this. I know I did.

 

[Sky]

Should send a copy of this whole thread to the news paper and let them edit.

 

[Harley Quinn]

I have a feeling the boyfriend was involved, more than has been mentioned
Who knocked the assailant out, for example Not specific on that one

Been an interesting thread...

Regards

 

[Deaf Smith]

http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/edinburgh/Girl-fined-for-fighting-back.6775245.jp

19 year old girl fined 500 British pounds for defending herself from masked attacker. Attacker was not fined if I read this right! Her problem was she continued to kick the man when he was down. Revenge is not an option in a self defense scenario even though the man was able to get up and walk away.

Since the guy could get up, I'd have advised my wife to keep kicking to! And in Texas she would not have been charged with ANYTHING.

But that's Europe, a place Obama loves even if he has no sense of protocol.

Deaf

 

[Gun Geezer]

I could not disagree more with her fine. In my view, she was perfectly OK in killing the attacker, even after he was down. Seems she was lucky to get him down to begin with. Why take the chance he might get back up? And besides, with no jail time, it is about 100% likely he will do it again.

But that is just my view.

 

[Ankeny]

In my view, she was perfectly OK in killing the attacker, even after he was down.

Bet you never have to serve on a jury.

 

[Neverwinter]

I could not disagree more with her fine. In my view, she was perfectly OK in killing the attacker, even after he was down. Seems she was lucky to get him down to begin with. Why take the chance he might get back up? And besides, with no jail time, it is about 100% likely he will do it again.

But that is just my view.

People in S&T forget this part of the decision making process when determining how to deal with an attacker. We should be cognizant of the likelihood of the attacker getting off with a slap on the wrist and maim them appropriately. In Texas, I wouldn't be charged with ANYTHING.

Edit:
I was trying to be tongue-and-cheek with my post, but it's frightening that there are people who actually believe that stuff. Or are they false flags from the anti-gunners attempting to smear gun owners?

Since the guy could get up, I'd have advised my wife to keep kicking to! And in Texas she would not have been charged with ANYTHING.

But that's Europe, a place Obama loves even if he has no sense of protocol.

I could not disagree more with her fine. In my view, she was perfectly OK in killing the attacker, even after he was down. Seems she was lucky to get him down to begin with. Why take the chance he might get back up? And besides, with no jail time, it is about 100% likely he will do it again.

But that is just my view.

 

[conw]

Sniderman, thanks for the generous donation! So far 36 gbp of 500...not a bad start. Hso and sm time to pay up . I will keep my blog updated. Also, I can talk with some contacts of mine about getting this publicized once we raise the money and pay her. would make a nice punch line to the story.

 

[hso]

Conwict,

At this point collect all you can and when Mr. Reynolds get's back in touch with me letting me know that the attorneys or Ms. Burleigh have set up a means to collect I'll let you and everyone else know.

 

[kilo729]

I feel like there's a lot of suggestions for voluntary manslaughter in this thread.

Come on guys, high road!

 

[Fred Fuller]

We should be cognizant of the likelihood of the attacker getting off with a slap on the wrist and maim them appropriately.

Then why would you not just kill the attacker as time permits, and make certain he will never threaten anyone again? Look how well that approach worked for a certain OKC pharmacist...

One more time, we are not appointed judge, jury and executioner. And it was and is the legally appointed executioner who's responsible for legally sentenced maimings in countries where such things are still carried out, so my use of the word is not hyperbole. When the attack ceases the justification for use of force in self defense ceases. Advocating continued use of force beyond that point is not High Road, and I strongly suggest that such advocacy cease and desist here immediately. I would rather not have to make it any clearer than that...

lpl

 

[mnrivrat]

Conwict -- I will send mine as soon as hso gets proper contacts set up to receive funds there. I assume you will work with him to make this happen, or are you going it on your own ?

 

[hso]

It is never sound from a SD standpoint to continue to fight after our attacker is down and out of the fight and we have an opportunity to break off and get to a secure/safe place. When we're afraid we have a right to fight as hard as possible to protect ourselves. When we're angry, not any more.

It is ridiculous to advise anyone to stay in contact with an attacker when you can break off and get to a secure place. It puts the defender at further risk and it subjects them to possible prosecution from going from the defender to an assailant/murder.

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by kilo729: I feel like there's a lot of suggestions for voluntary manslaughter in this thread.

Come on guys, high road!

Thanks.

As Lee Lapin has pointed out very clearly in Post #89, that is not permitted here. I think it is important to add a reminder on something else: when one has posted something questionable on the Internet, such a statement can be brought to bear at any time in the future by investigators, and potentially by prosecutors, as an indication of a possibly criminal state of mind, should the individual ever become involved in a questionable violent encounter.

That is true in any kind of altercation, but when one is forced to defend oneself in hand to hand combat, the line between necessary force and excessive force is easily blurred. It is not a good idea to provide evidence against oneself in advance.

Posted by hso: It is never sound from a SD standpoint to continue to fight after our attacker is down and out of the fight and we have an opportunity to break off and get to a secure/safe place. When we're afraid we have a right to fight as hard as possible to protect ourselves. When we're angry, not any more.

It is ridiculous to advise anyone to stay in contact with an attacker when you can break off and get to a secure place. It puts the defender at further risk and it subjects them to possible prosecution from going from the defender to an assailant/murder.

Very true indeed.

 

[Manco]

I could not disagree more with her fine. In my view, she was perfectly OK in killing the attacker, even after he was down.

Something to ponder: "When you look long into an abyss, the abyss also looks into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche

Seems she was lucky to get him down to begin with. Why take the chance he might get back up?

If she were still in reasonable fear for her life, then I'd say that she would be justified in pressing her advantage. On the other hand, vigilante justice is something else entirely, and has no place in civilized society. Which of these occurred was up to the court to decide, and since the decision was the latter, then it couldn't go unpunished--at least they took it easy on her given the circumstances and her emotions at the time.

And besides, with no jail time, it is about 100% likely he will do it again.

That's a failure of the justice system, but it's still more tolerable than a lawless society in which everybody considers themselves judge, jury, and executioner. Those who use deadly force for any reason must use it responsibly.

 

[the count]

Without wanting to insult any Brits personally I must say (and I have been in the UK many times) that Britain now COMBINES THE NEGATIVES OF BOTH THE USA AND EUROPE. Not kidding, back in the 70's I liked the UK. Now I loath every time I have to stop in Heathrow airport.

 

[CMC]

The actions of the man prompted the reaction and the temporary mental insanity of the young lady therefore he is guilty of what happened to him.
I beleive If someone is killed from an action that started by you while comiting a felony you can be charged with murder.
He started the felony and he was guilty of what happened to him IMHO.

 

[conw]

Conwict -- I will send mine as soon as hso gets proper contacts set up to receive funds there. I assume you will work with him to make this happen, or are you going it on your own ?

If there is a better place to put the funds, I will just transfer everything I have collected to that and change my links to the "official" fund place. In the meantime, I assure anyone that wants to donate that their donations are in safe hands with me.

Thanks.

 

[hso]

I'll vouch for Conwict as being trustworthy (in spite of his handle). Anything sent to him will make it to the right place. Some folks may want to donate directly so she can see who kicked in and others may prefer to have a veil of anonymity in place.

 

[conw]

^thanks hso.

I will preserve anonymity of any donors.

"Kicked in" - nice choice of words

 

[Harley Quinn]

Granted what he could have done to female, ultimatly been a felony...His simple assault is not though... That is the whole line of reason in this case as I see it... She was with another and they overpowered the attack and then beat the man unconsious... That was when you stop your assault...

The actions of the man prompted the reaction and the temporary mental insanity of the young lady therefore he is guilty of what happened to him.
I beleive If someone is killed from an action that started by you while comiting a felony you can be charged with murder.
He started the felony and he was guilty of what happened to him IMHO.

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by CMC: I beleive If someone is killed from an action that started by you while comiting a felony you can be charged with murder.

That's generally true.

He started the felony and he was guilty of what happened to him IMHO.

You misunderstand the law.