19 yr old daughter getting her first appartment.

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Tx_Jim

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I have some questions about pepper spray. One, are there any laws here in Texas regarding carrying pepper spray? Two, where can one buy pepper spray here in the Austin, TX area. And three, does anyone have any suggestions on brand and etc.

sorry for my ignorance about pepper spray and thanks in advance.
 
It's illegal to possess a "chemical dispensing device" as per §46.05 of the Texas Penal Code. §46.01 defines a "chemical dispensing device" as:

14) "Chemical dispensing device" means a device, other than a
small chemical dispenser sold commercially for personal protection
,
that is designed, made, or adapted for the purpose of dispensing a
substance capable of causing an adverse psychological or physiological
effect on a human being.
Emphasis mine. I think pretty much any pepper spray you can buy in a store will be legal, and this is more oriented towards, for example, making a 40mm tear gas grenade illegal.
 
Pepper spray? I would look at a nice pistol. For a "house gun" it doesn't have to be a tiny mousegun. People tell me a .45 does wonders for making someone decide that breaking out is a higher priority than breaking in.
 
I wish she would carry one. Two things, first she is not comfortable with handguns...i tried to get her to shoot but she won't. Second, she works early in the morning (at work by 5:30 am) and needs something she can carry legally in Tx (at 19 yrs old a handgun is not legal). Although she does works for the county sheriffs department (not a LEO...admin staff)...I wonder if different rules apply.
 
A 26" shotgun like the Mossberg persuader if she will have a long gun. Other than that a big dog at home , tazer, pepper spray, and situational awareness goes a long way.
 
Cabela's carries pepper spray (at least the Fort Worth one does, so I'm assuming the one in Buda, 5 miles south of Austin, does, too). Go to the gun counter. They should have the pepper spray there (behind the counter). You can get her one for her purse and a big "Bear Spray" one to keep on her night stand, if you wish.
 
You haven't gotten any real advice yet.:scrutiny:

I carry a 4 oz. Fox Labs. A lot of police carry these, they're cheap, they're powerful, and they're easy to use.

I ordered off of this website.

http://www.selfdefenseproducts.com/pepper.htm

It's legal to carry in Texas. Not legal in NYC, MA, and Minot, North Dakota (I'm not kidding).
 
Thanks for the responses...

I really need to go through some thought process before deciding on a house gun for her.

I know one must be 21 to purchase a handgun...but what is the minimum age to be in posession of a handgun? I have a .38 i could give her but what legal libilities are there for me? My concern is that she is going to have roommates. She is at one of these appartments designed for college students...meaning she rents by the room and the complex does the roomate matching. If she has an unscrupulous roommate who goes through her things and finds the pistol and does something stupid with it...what legal hassels do i need to be aware of. I assume a quick hand safe might protect me from legal issues but do not know.

this is even if she lets me take her to the range and if she is even willing to take the pistol.

The complex is gated (and the gates are closed 24/7 with a manned guard shack at the front). They provide a roving CP (courtesy patrol)...not armed...and not police trainined...but roving non the less.

Am I just being a parinoid father?

What do ya'll think?
 
Hold up realll quick now. Is this an on campus dorm? Even so, there are private apartments around here that are still considered to be on campus.

She going to UT/ACC/St. Edwards?

I lived at the Dobie Center last year for UT, even though it wasn't technically affiliated with the university it was still on the edge of campus and firearms were strictly prohibited. You don't want her to get into trouble now.

Pepper spray sounds like a great idea, many students here carry it, but i question their mindset. They mostly keep them on keychains buried deep into their purses. Every girl i've come across that does that gets a talking to from me.

There are many many threats to be aware of around the UT campus. Namely the homeless population, I've had 3 run ins with them that involved serious crimes (stabbing, attempted rape, twice). None of them were ever caught. They all had to do with female friends of mine. (the girls call me when they feel like they're in danger).

I myself have had to run to avoid confrontation with drunk homeless looking for fights. Not mention all the shoplifters/intoxicated i have dealt with working at the convenience store.

If she is going to UT, theres a school range right next to he gym. This year it has turned pretty private because of the UT legal department, one has to be part of the competitive team to practice there. But im sure i could get her in for at least one shooting session. I taught maybe 20 first time shooters last semester. I'd be more than willing to see if shes up for some .22 or maybe even the target air pistols.

18 is legal for possession. You're free to gift her a gun.

If you have any questions, i have 5 semesters under my belt and youre welcome to pm me.

PS. One key thing, the threat can be from inside the gated community. Places like Riverside (Longhorn landing) or town lake are gated, but drunk drugged up college kids do party whilst in the community. I have a story or two about those communities as well.
 
I livedin a gated community for a few months. Felt more uncomfortable there than any country house, dorm or plain city house I've been in. Too many people I didn't know always around.

While a handgun might be a better defensive choice, I would make sure she is comfortable using it.

If it is a college house, make sure she knows her roommate before bring guns into the house. Also, make sure there is nothing against it, if it is tied to the school, there are likely rules against firearms being stored there.
 
OC spray, or pepper spray as it is more commonly called.

Oleoresin Capasin (OC) is concentrated heat from a hot-pepper plant. It is an oleoresin, which means it sticks to the skin and cannot be simply rubbed away, and it is an irritant, which means that the reaction does not rely upon allergies or sensitivities. Only about 1 person in about 10,000 doesn't really react to the stuff, so it can be an effective mid range defense tool.

If OC gets into or near your eyes, your eyes will slam shut and begin watering profusely; getting them open again is NOT going to happen just by willing it so, but you can reach up and pry one eye open with your hand if you keep your wits about you. Snot production kicks into high gear. The hands usually drop whatever they're holding, and reach for the face in a reflexive motion. The skin will burn like a bad sunburn or worse. If the OC gets down into the airways, breathing burns like fire and the person will have the sensation that they are choking or suffocating (they won't be, unless they are among the truly miniscule portion of the population who experiences an anaphylactic allergic reaction to the stuff).

All of this tends to stop the attack. That's the good news.

The bad news is that these reactions can take up to 5 seconds before they begin, and a lot of very bad and very permanent things can happen during that 5 seconds. Furthermore, if the attacker knows the victim is armed with pepper spray, there are certain specific things he can do to protect himself from the spray, or to mentally prep himself to fight through the reaction. Pepper spray does not make a good "stop or I'll use this" type of deterrent for that reason. (And any ex-con has very likely been sprayed before, knows what it'll do to him, and knows he can fight through it if he must; warning this type of person that you are about to use OC spray just preps him for a fight.)

You can get OC in three basic spray patterns: a fog, a stream, and a foam.

The foam was intended for use inside correctional facilities and other places where contaminating the air was a concern. I'm aware of at least two jails where they're no longer using the foam pattern because inmates have learned to simply swipe the foam off their skin and then smear it into the faces of the guards. The foam is least likely to get into the attacker's lungs, so scratch all the "I'm suffocating" stuff above; and unless you score a direct hit on the attacker's face you won't get the eyeball reactions either, leaving only the bad-sunburn sensation on whatever patch of skin you do happen to hit, and maybe not even that if you hit his clothes rather than his skin. So aim it carefully.

The stream was designed to combine the advantages of the fog with the advantages of the foam. It is more likely to get into the attacker's eyes, but still won't get into his lungs unless you are very fortunate and he was inhaling with his mouth open at the moment you hit his face. Like the foam, however, it is less likely to contaminate the user herself than the fog is. And like the foam, it has to be directly aimed at the attacker's face; a near-miss won't do anything useful.

The fog is most likely to get the full reaction: eyes, nose, lungs, skin. It requires the least precision in use, and a near miss with it is almost as good as a hit. It is quickest to disperse in the open air, however, and most likely to contaminate the user as well as the attacker.

The intensity of OC is measured in Scoville Heat Units (SHU), and also by the percentage of product within the can. In order to get the true, at-the-nozzle effectiveness rating, you multiply the SHU by the percentage of product. This multiplication gives you a common denominator allowing you to directly compare a can of OC with an SHU of 10,000 at 2% with one with an SHU of 8,000 at 5%.

Most instructors will tell you to use OC in 2-second bursts, and to immediately move to one side after you spray the attacker. The attacker will very likely lunge directly for the spot he last saw you in, with his arms wide open to try to grab you. You cannot just spray and stand there to see what happens. Flee to one side or the other rather than straight back for your best chance of getting away.

Fox Labs produces probably the best-regarded spray on the market. There are others. Stay away from any product that doesn't give you both the SHU and the %; stay away from any product that looks gimicky; and stay away from anyone charging $50 for less than a half-ounce of OC.

Some good old threads about using pepper spray and other non-firearms options:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=254996
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=217761
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=179103

Also take a look through the subforum about non-firearms weapons.

pax
 
Hold up realll quick now. Is this an on campus dorm? Even so, there are private apartments around here that are still considered to be on campus.

She going to UT/ACC/St. Edwards?

I lived at the Dobie Center last year for UT, even though it wasn't technically affiliated with the university it was still on the edge of campus and firearms were strictly prohibited. You don't want her to get into trouble now.

Pepper spray sounds like a great idea, many students here carry it, but i question their mindset. They mostly keep them on keychains buried deep into their purses. Every girl i've come across that does that gets a talking to from me.

There are many many threats to be aware of around the UT campus. Namely the homeless population, I've had 3 run ins with them that involved serious crimes (stabbing, attempted rape, twice). None of them were ever caught. They all had to do with female friends of mine. (the girls call me when they feel like they're in danger).

I myself have had to run to avoid confrontation with drunk homeless looking for fights. Not mention all the shoplifters/intoxicated i have dealt with working at the convenience store.

If she is going to UT, theres a school range right next to he gym. This year it has turned pretty private because of the UT legal department, one has to be part of the competitive team to practice there. But im sure i could get her in for at least one shooting session. I taught maybe 20 first time shooters last semester. I'd be more than willing to see if shes up for some .22 or maybe even the target air pistols.

18 is legal for possession. You're free to gift her a gun.

If you have any questions, i have 5 semesters under my belt and youre welcome to pm me.

PS. One key thing, the threat can be from inside the gated community. Places like Riverside (Longhorn landing) or town lake are gated, but drunk drugged up college kids do party whilst in the community. I have a story or two about those communities as well.

She is a student at one of those schools you mentioned. The appartment complex is not affiliated with any school and even rents to non-students although they cater to students. It's not even in close proximity to any one school but is on the bus routes for one of the schools you mentioned. One, question we did ask was about children...although by law they could not say if any children lived in the complex the girl did say that they do not prohibit children and or families...but on the same breath she said that because they rent "by the room" it would be expensive for a family to rent by the room.

That would indicate to me that they fall under any ordinary leasing laws.

BTW...I talked to her today...she is willing to go to the range just to see if she would be comfortable with the idea.
 
I would never trust someone i dont know very well around a gun. If you do end up gifting her the gun, a quick access safe would be a good idea (as well as many hours of talking to and training).
 
I had no idea that pepper spray was illegal in some places. I have given gifts of pepper spray, whistles, and pocket knives to our nieces, along with a long talk about situational awareness and locking doors even when you are home. I live in a college neighborhood, and it never ceases to amaze me that many youngsters walk alone at night, with their walkman/mp3 player headphones cranked in their ears. They are completely unaware of what's going on, and some do become victims of crime. Some I have warned about walking around oblivious to what's going on; one told me she has a right to walk around whenever, wherever, doing whatever she wants without fear. They feel the police are there to protect all of us 24-7. I warn college kids that YOU are responsible for YOUR safety, and the police cannot protect all of us all the time. Try suing your local PD when you become a victim.

Maybe a martial arts class would be helpful; along with the advice about NOT getting drunk in strange places with strange people. Also it may be a good time to have the "use a condom" talk as well.
 
Also it may be a good time to have the "use a condom" talk as well.

I have that conversation with her every chance i have since she was 14.

As for getting drunk...i'm sure she will partake in drinking but i hope I have drilled responsibility into her head enough that she will make the right choices. I even talk to her about not putting her drink down or let others pour drinks for her just because someone may slip something into it. Like I said before...she works for the county sheriff’s office and because she has minimal contact with inmates they are required to take a three week safety course dealing with how to handle inmates and situational awareness. Hopefully, between that course and my lecturing she learned something about being responsible for her own safety. I also taught her to fight with whatever is available (kicking, screaming, scratching, biting if necessary) whatever it takes to not be a victim ...make as much noise as possible...do not make it easy for a BG.
 
Swift kick to the gonads.

Good theory, not so easy in practice. Men are pretty well conditioned from childhood on to protect the gonads -- though of course if you can get a quick knee jab there, all the better.

Realistically, humans are tool-users. We are tool users because we are, by and large, ill equipped for doing things without tools. Our nails are not generally strong enough to shred prey (unlike a tiger's). Our teeth, formidable as they are, are not really designed for slashing (unlike a bear's or a dog's). Although it's really good to be able to fight without tools if you need to, tools are better.

It's all a matter of finding the right tools and then learning how to most effectively use those tools when you need 'em most.

pax
 
TxJim wrote:

I have some questions about pepper spray. One, are there any laws here in Texas regarding carrying pepper spray? Two, where can one buy pepper spray here in the Austin, TX area. And three, does anyone have any suggestions on brand and etc.

sorry for my ignorance about pepper spray and thanks in advance.

there is a local police supply store in town she can buy stuff from so long as she has her police department credentials (which they ask you display when they buzz you in), even as a civilian employee. it is GT Distributors in N. Austin:

www.gtdist.com

i am in located in Austin and we do offer an OC course (as well as a CHL course) if she is interested in learning more about self defense options. we also offer a Women & Handguns class (only for women students), as well as other stuff.

i am a certified OC instructor by Def-Tec/Armor Holdings. granted there is no specific law mandating she be trained how to use it, it is always nice to know how to use it and the laws concerning self-defense.

to answer your specific question, she can carry a personal sized OC aerosol projector and be legal in Texas. that basically means a MK-III or smaller size. she wouldn't be legal obviously with a pepper fogger!

anyway if you want send me a PM and ill see what i can do to help.
 
My own minor footnotes to the above: McBride's Gunstore at 28th and Lamar (walking distance to UT campus) sells the Kimber Life Act or Guardian Angel for about $40. Also, doubling up on the recommendation to her to visit the UT range and consider training for competitive matches. Even if she does not join, she can visit to see IF she would join.
 
Quote:
Although she does works for the county sheriffs department (not a LEO...admin staff)...I wonder if different rules apply


I would think all she would have to do is talk to one of the higher ups at the sheriffs department and they will get her squared away. Might even get her the same stuff they use in the department and some instruction.
 
they may be able to give her a can of OC, but not sure what her agency issues to its troops. if they issue a MK-IV sized canister, that is probably in violation of the Texas Penal Code as it is not a personal-sized canister (as there are at least two canister sizes i can think of, MK-III and MK-VI, that are smaller).

if they issue a smaller size can and they are willing to give it to her then great. somehow i dont think that will happen unless she is a corrections officer.

that would really be no different than an agency issuing a box of ammunition to a non-sworn employee......seeing it is for "off the job" protection im not sure if an agency would just hand a can of OC to a non-sworn employee, especially without training. i think there may be a liability issue? there is certainly no liability in not providing a can of OC to an employee for self-defense purposes off the clock. but i think there could definitely be a liability issue for the LE agency if they did give it the employee without proper training.
 
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