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1905 4th change buy or pass **PIC ADDED**

Discussion in 'Handguns: Revolvers' started by bigtubby, Jan 23, 2013.

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  1. bigtubby

    bigtubby Member

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    Looking at a nice condition probably 93% 1905 4th change I believe it is a late 20's gun or a early 30's original grips with no S&W emblem just plain diamond magna's Serial # 5213XX it is a one line address with the mushroom head ejector. I know these are not exactly rare no box or goodies in your opinion is this a $300 gun?

    Perhaps I have overstated the condition so here is a pic so i would now say closer to 85% condition still worth the $300 price tag.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2013
  2. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    For $300? In decent shape and works? How exactly could you go wrong? :confused:
     
  3. Husker_Fan

    Husker_Fan Member

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    That sounds good to me for a shooter. I love my long action k-frame. It has the best DA pull of any revolver I've shot.
     
  4. bannockburn

    bannockburn Member

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    As long as it checks out okay, in that good of condition, I would buy it for that price.
     
  5. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    If everything is as described I wouldn't walk, I'd RUN!!!!

    Most likely it was made during the 1920's and at the time they were sometimes well greased. If any of it's left on the inside it will have turned to varnish. It is a good idea to remove the stocks and then soak the gun in a bath of carburetor cleaner (do this outdoors) followed by a bath in Marvel Mystery Oil (obtainable at automobile service stores). Use an air hose to blow out excessive oil, run a dry patch through the bore and chambers, and wipe down the exterior with paper towels. (When oil soaked they are a fire hazard so dispose of them accordingly).

    Because it lacks a positive hammer block, carry with 5 chambers loaded and the hammer down on the empty one.
     
  6. bigtubby

    bigtubby Member

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    double post
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2013
  7. bigtubby

    bigtubby Member

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    I am not real good with grading condition so added a pic worth the 3 bills?

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Guillermo

    Guillermo member

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    if u don't buy it, pm me.

    i have one like it and it is one of the finest revolvers that I own. (and I have some nice ones)
     
  9. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    If the grip panel on the other side is in as good condition as the one shown, the pair is worth in the $100 range, +/- $20.00.

    At a major auction the revolver would likely fetch between $300 to $350, and perhaps $375. Future value is unlikely to go down.

    When it was made Smith & Wesson could afford to be generous with skilled hand fitting, and aggressive cost-cutting changes had not yet been introduced.

    Today many regard firearms as nothing more then a tool, and an expendable one at that. Others look backwards and see uncompromised craftsmanship and artistry. I have no idea which group you might fall into, but to answer your question - if you don't like it I'm pretty sure you can get your money spent out of it, and then some. You can't say that about very many things these days.
     
  10. rswartsell

    rswartsell Member

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    Land that one tubby, between Guillermo and I you have an out if you decide not to keep it.
     
  11. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    I take it that you belong to the second group? :D:
     
  12. roaddog28

    roaddog28 Member

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    That is a fair price for the revolver pictured. Like others have said, the M&P S&W revolvers are great shooters. You did not mention whether the revolver is 38 special or 38 S&W. S&W made this revolver in both calibers. Its easy to tell just look at the right side barrel. If the revolver says 38 S&W special CTG then the revolver is a 38 special. If the revolver does not read special then its a S&W. Ammo for a S&W CTG is harder to find and more expensive. But anyway this revolver is a good buy and worth the price. Also avoid using 38 +P ammo in this old lady. S&W did not heat treat their cylinders until 1930s. If you buy the revolver stay with standard pressure ammo. A good choice is the 148gr wad cutter ammo. Very accurate in this revolver.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2013
  13. bigtubby

    bigtubby Member

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    It is .38 special according to the seller I am going to look at it tonight so if she checks out I will post some more pics in the morning.
     
  14. Guillermo

    Guillermo member

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    the amazing thing about that gun is that the painstaking hand fitting and craftsmanship was available to "everyman". It was not a special edition target piece or a "flagship" offering. It was just the way that they made them.
     
  15. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    +1

    Perhaps the pinnacle of that was when they silver-soldered the hard steel inserts in the sides of the cylinder stop notches on the Model #3 single-action to prevent them ever wearing!

    Seriously, they did that!!

    rc
     
  16. Driftwood Johnson

    Driftwood Johnson Member

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    Howdy

    Three hundred bucks for a nice old Smith like that is a great price today, if it wuz me I would grab it and run.

    As Old Fuff said, those grips are easily worth $100 just by themselves.

    Those are not Magna grips, those were known as service grips.

    These are Magna grips (or stocks as S&W calls them). Notice how the grips rise all the way up and cover the corner frame screw.




    [​IMG]


    There are about 4 different types of service grips that S&W put on their revolvers before Magnas. The ones in your photo are square butt, round top, without medallions. S&W used them between 1920 and 1929.


    This 44 Handejector 2nd Model wears grips with recessed gold medallions.



    [​IMG]

    This M&P wears grips with flush medallions.

    [​IMG]

    If you buy the gun, be sure to remove the grips and see if they are numbered to the gun. Usually numbered in pencil, but I have seen the numbers stamped in too. Sometimes the penciled numbers have worn off.

    I would not worry too much about loading six in that gun. Although I NEVER load six in a traditional Single Action, all S&W handejectors had (and still have) a rebounding hammer. When the trigger is released, a nub of steel on top of the rebound slide forces the hammer back about 1/8", pulling the firing pin away from primer underneath. Yes, it has been documented that on rare occaision the hammer stud might shear off under a tremendous blow and discharge the gun, but it was very rare. Much rarer than the 'safety notch' or sear of a Single Action shearing off, and requiring a much heavier blow. I'm not sure, that one may even have the old spring type hammer block inside, mounted on the side plate, not sure just when they started doing that. Even so, I have several old Smiths made before the hammer block, and I never worry about carrying six rounds in them, although I would never do it with a Single Action.

    Grab it and run.
     
  17. Guillermo

    Guillermo member

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    once you handle a gun like that, the stuff at the new counter seems like it is hollow
     
  18. Driftwood Johnson

    Driftwood Johnson Member

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    Really?

    I have three Number Threes, a Russian, a New Model Number Three, and a Double Action 44. I have not seen any evidence of inserts soldered into the cylinder. As a matter of fact, there is significant wear on the slots of the Russian and the DA 44.
     
  19. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    Those hardened steel inserts next to the cylinder stop notches to prevent battering were staked, not silver soldered. The process was also patented (#401087 dated April 9, 1889). They are usually found in top-breaks rather then hand ejectors. They are so closely fitted that it takes a strong magnifying glass to detect them, and if the cylinder is nickel plated even the glass won't reveal them. By the early 1900's the process was discontinued because of extra expense, and supposedly the steel used to make cylinders was much improved.

    Of course those old top-breaks were inferior to what we have today because they didn'y have the CNC machines that are currently used...
     
  20. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    And of course 99.9% of them got shot so much it wore out the cylinder notches in the first place! :rolleyes:

    I was just say'n!

    rc
     
  21. lowercase

    lowercase Member

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    Those diamond stocks on the gun look amazing.

    I'd do 300 bucks for that gun in a heartbeat.
     
  22. bannockburn

    bannockburn Member

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    bigtubby

    If you do buy it you might want to be somewhat careful when removing the stocks. I had one very similar to that one (in terms of its age), and I noticed that the wood had dried out considerably and had become very brittle and prone to splintering.
     
  23. Driftwood Johnson

    Driftwood Johnson Member

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    Howdy Again

    Maybe that's why my big Top Breaks don't show them. They were all made before 1889. But thanks, learn something everyday.
     
  24. bigtubby

    bigtubby Member

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    The old gal passed her physical with flying colors as soon as it stops raining I will get some pics up. You all were right I can just feel the quality in that gun. Has a somewhat heavy trigger pull probably needs to be cleaned out the screws are in excellent shape so I will try the method of soaking it. Stocks do appear dry should they get pure tung oil ? or just leave them alone. Thanks for all the help in pushing me to buy this gun now that I have it I cant believe I got it for that price.
     
  25. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    Soaking it clean and lubricating it (which the Marvel Mystery Oil will do) should improve the weight of the double-action trigger pull some. If you want it slightly lighter you can exchange the mainspring for a standard one of current manufacture, which is lighter. In the 1920's primers sometimes required a harder whack- so the mainsprings were heavier. This alteration does nothing to the revolver, and can be reversed by switching springs again.

    If the only problem with the stocks is that they are dry, try several applications of Lemon Oil.
     
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