1911-A1 safeties

[Admiral Thrawn]

Can someone please give me a brief rundown on how the safeties of the 1911-A1 work? Also, what is the difference between a Series 70 and a Series 80 1911-A1?

I know they have a slide safety and a grip safety, but how do these intereact with one another? etc

Thanks.

 

[incursion]

I'm not intimately familiar with the series 70 and 80, but I do know that the series 70 lacks the firing pin safety. Whereas, the series 80 has a firing pin safety.

 

[Admiral Thrawn]

Are the Series 80 1911-A1's the latest varient? Anyone know when these were first introduced?

 

[45auto]

Basically,
The series 80 has a mechanical firing pin block consisting of 2 levers in the frame and a plunger and spring in the slide.
When you pull the trigger, the trigger bow moves 1 lever against another lever that pushes up the plunger tube in the slide which allows the firing pin to go forward.
If you don't pull the trigger the firing pin cannot move forward and strike the primer. It is blocked by the plunger in the slide.

I believe the series 80 was introduced in the early 80's.

The series 70 does not have this.

All 1911's have a grip safety. When depressed, the grip safety allows the trigger bow to move back and release the disconnector/sear . When not depressed, the "nub" on the grip safety prevents the trigger from moving back.

All have a thumb safety that when engaged, blocks the sear from moving and the slide from retracting.

The disconnector is a safety, of sorts, but it's not something a user actively engages.

That's the best I can explain it to the best of my knowledge. Other's can correct or enhance.

 

[Jeff Timm]

There are always those who count large numbers of "safeties" on an M1911A1.

There are two, one a thumb safety on the left side of the pistol.
Two, a grip safety at the back of the grip.

The series 80 had a firing pin block added to the trigger. This is an example of a solution to a non-existant problem, but since it is automatically activated, does not consititute a safety device.

Cross reference the police officer who claimed a 9mm round fired when dropped on concrete. Fired with enough force to penetrate the ceiling of the room he was in.

Jeff
Who notes the gloriously glorious perfect perfection of the Police, especially the State Police in Ohio.

 

[Handy]

Jeff,

This:

Cross reference the police officer who claimed a 9mm round fired when dropped on concrete. Fired with enough force to penetrate the ceiling of the room he was in.

is in reference to a dropped handgun, or a dropped loose 9mm round?


In either case, how does that relate?



The series 80 safety does two things: It guards against high muzzle down drops.

And it protects the condition 1 carrier against total failure of the sear (since no manual safety blocks the 1911 hammer).

It provides an added margin of mostly unnecessary protection, but so does homeowner's insurance. And as it doesn't seem to adversely affect the gun much (if at all), why not have it?

 

[Sean Smith]

The Series 80 deal was more for passing drop safety tests than anything to do with the sear failing during cocked & locked carry. That's what the misnamed "half-cock" notch is for... if the sear hooks somehow fail on a 1911, the gun still won't go off for that reason.

 

[Handy]

I know Sean. I listed both because the half cock guards agaisnt the sear tip breaking, but a break around the pivot area would not be stopped by the halfcock.

If you think that unlikely, then we're in agreement. I did say "mostly unnecessary".

 

[45auto]

The sear is not always caught by the half cock on the hammer if there is a problem. Mostly it does, but not always. Been there and done that!

Releasing the slide to load the mag and having the hammer follow and fire the gun is prevented by the series 80 because the trigger is not pulled- just like the modern guns!

One reason why, IMHO, the series 80 is a superior safety compared to the Kimber, S&W grip activated style. You will be holding the gun with the grip safety depressed if your hammer follows and fires the gun- no prevention.

 

[yzguy]

The series 80 had a firing pin block added to the trigger. This is an example of a solution to a non-existant problem

the problem is drop fires...

scroll all the way to the bottom:
http://www.1bad69.com/keltec/droptestresults.htm
(it will fire from 2 feet!!)

 

[Handy]

Well YZ, that's some scary crap.

I have one pistol that I carry that doesn't have a pin block, but it's not a 1911 or Keltec.

 

[Mute]

The Series 80s safety and the Swartz safety is for the most part unnecessary. However, as already mentioned, in practicality it has very little effect on usability, nor has it proven to be problematic. It doesn't hurt you to have it. That said, I hate those damn things, because it's a pain in the *** when I do a detailed strip. Just another small part to lose or break.

For my time and money, I elect not to have those particular types of safeties in my 1911's. YMMV.

 

[yzguy]

I'm probably going to try a stronger FP spring and a Titanium FP in mine and see if it works ok, then try the drop test again...

I'm not terribly afraid of drop fires or anything, just want to be aware of the properties of my guns...

 

[Handy]

YZ,

I hadn't realized that was your personal drop test web page.

Good system and protocol. Very impressive.


I had considered doing something similar, but I was thinking of a more complicated vertical track system to protect the guns.

By the way, why did you lighten the P11 FP spring in the first place? Were you getting light strikes?

 

[yzguy]

I have modified my trigger pull length and weight, which affected how hard the hammer hit the FP. I shortened the FP spring to protect against light strikes (I don't remember if I tried it first). I was not thinking about drop fires at the time, just slam fires. Another person tested a P-11 without a FP spring for slam fires, and could not get 1.....

http://www.1bad69.com/keltec/triggermods.htm

There was some discussion on KTOG about drop fires, so I did my own test. I just did the 1911 for comparison. I really expected it to do much better than that.....

The only thing I was worried about (in regards to the testing) was insuring it hit the same way every time, but dropping it with the string did pretty good....