1911 Barrel Bushing Question

[Three Man]

How do I get the Barrel bushing to stay tight to the slide?

I have a Sistema 45 ACP 1911 and have fitted a bushing, but all the bushings I have always leave a small gap between the bushing and slide on this pistol.

So does someone make a barrel bushing with a thicker lug on the bushing? (Idea is to fit the lug)

Or a barrel bushing with the lug closer to the front face flange?

Or is there some other trick to fitting the barrel bushing? I suspect that my slide is out of spec or on the high end of the spec.

I know egw has bushings with the thicker flange but is the flange thicker away or closer to the lug?

:banghead:

 

[model 649]

Three Man, could you post a pic. of what you're talking about? It sounds like you are saying the bushing cocks and leaves a gap between the rear face of the bushing's flange and the front face of the slide? If so, then yeah, it should be tightened up. I don't see thickness of the flange as being the trouble, though. Sounds like the fit is loose to the inside of the slide. The bushing can be expanded or a new one can be fitted to tighten it up to the slide. On my Commander, I fitted an EGW so that it's just snug enough to require a bushing wrench. Just beyond finger tight. The flange stays tight to the slide's face. They are sold by measurement of barrel outer diameter and slide inner diameter. If the sizes are really weird, I'm sure George(Mr. EGW) can make one up special if need be but I have no ideas on price. Doesn't sound like too big a deal but a pic would really help me understand what you have.
Josh

 

[Three Man]

Model 649, Your close but not quite what I'm after.
The entire bushing is pushed away from the slide.
the bushing is fit tight just enouph where a bushing wrench is needed to get it off.
I can push the bushing back to contact the slide but after firing it pushes away again.
The pistol could not group worth a squat prior to fitting this bushing, and now shoots excellent groups for a beater. But I don't like the gap between the bushing and the frame. The previous bushing had this gap issue as well.

Is there anything I could do to eliminate this gap?

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[HSMITH]

Not really, you will either end up welding the lug cut in the slide and having it re-cut in the proper location or having a bushing made with a thick flange.

Either way a Sistema really isn't worth it. If it shoots good now go with it.

 

[ken grant]

Sistema???????

Why is a Sistema not worth spending time and money on?
A 1911 made of good materials and to specs. Better than most new 1911's being made today. No cast or mim parts. Extractors made of real spring steel.

 

[carolinaman]

Hi Three Man,

Yes, Wilson Combat and others make an oversize bushing that you can fit to your gun.

That is, if the lug slot in the slide is in the same location as your 1911.

Chris

 

[model 649]

WOW!! I'm glad for the pic. Not what I was envisioning at all! Looks like the retaining slot in the slide is too far out front. Send that pic to EGW and see what he would want for a custom bushing, might be worth it if you really like the gun.
Josh

 

[gamachinist]

There is a cheap, down and dirty way to fix that.
I hope I won't become known as a "hammer gunsmith"!
You can take a hammer and peen the lug on the bushing forward to make it ride further back in the slide.
Place a tight fitting support made of drill rod in the bore of the bushing and use a punch to move some metal forward on the lug,leaving the rear portion of the lug unmolested.You could clamp the rod in the vise with the bushing against the top of the jaws to keep the bushing from getting oval shaped from the forging of the lug.
You will probably have to file fit the end a little bit and smooth the sides where they will spread out also.
Since the bushing is tight in the slide,this should have no negative effects other than the appearance of the lug.
Hope this helps as I pull on my Nomex undies!

 

[RogersPrecision]

Try a bushing from King's Gun Works. They typically require filing about .010" off of the front face of the lug.

 

[Three Man]

Thanks for all the replies. I'll have to get a custom bushing made and fit it myself because I'll need one to close the gap about 0.0265" tighter.

I got this thing over 10 years ago at a tiny gun shop. The Sistema was Bubbafied. The previous owner tried to lower and flare the ejection port and throat the barrel. Ugly cold blueing job but, the numbers all match and the pistol is tight and for $250 I figured I had come across my home tinkering pistol and I would not feel bad if I messed it up.

With this Sistema I've learned to do a trigger job (left this one at 5lbs but it's crisp), fit a barrel bushing, replaced sights, fixed up the butchering of the ejection port and re-cold blued. The best part is that I now have all kinds of good proper tools for tinkering. Thought about replacing the barrel but the lockup is good and rifling is clean and looks good, so after fitting this bushing groups shrunk from 10" to 2.5" at 20 yards (with a rest as support). I'm also thinking about parkerizing it but I've grown fond of the cheap cold blueing look on this pistol. I purchased cheap sights and the NM bushing is also a cheap one. But now since I know this pistols potential I'll have to get better parts.

More tinkering, Yeah.

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[model 649]

I can see why you like it, you've "made it your own" and it has a cool personality. Why trash it when you can easily make it better? Good luck, man.
Josh

 

[Dale Taylor]

Mr Smith, as a Sistema owner and shooter, I beleve you should get one. Many of us are not elitist. I do shoot a Mod 52-2 and Kimber series 1 compact. but they are so relable they are boring. I can tinker and learn with Sistema. My next project is fit a beaverrtail grip safety. Lighten up and let us enjoy our guns. [email protected]

 

[HSMITH]

FWIW, I have a Sistema. It is a good gun, nothing wrong with it. It isn't the base for a custom gun though IMO and they don't cost a lot. That is all I meant. Some of you guys are pretty sensitive.....

 

[Old Fuff]

The gap you are referring to is not unusual on USGI guns, and may be within tolerance... I’ll have to check some blueprints when I get time.

On military service pistols the bushing was suppose to wiggle a bit to insure there wouldn't be any stem-bind or barrel springing. Remember that the barrels were not stepped at the muzzle. Of course today’s shooters wouldn’t tolerate such slop(?), but this is part of the reason the original Browning design was as reliable as it was. It also insured that the bushing could be removed with one’s fingers, and without tools. Tight, or so-called “match bushings” didn’t come into the picture until just before World War Two, and these were intended for use on target pistols.

It should also be understood that the Argentine guns were made according to Colt blueprints dating from the 1930’s, and they were precisely made “to print.” They are fully equal or better then Colt's made during the same (1950's) period.

Any of the current-day bushings mentioned in previous posts can solve the perceived problem, but also remember to either step the barrel at the muzzle or open up the bushing’s bore. Otherwise you will discover that deviating from Browning’s carefully determined dimensions can cause more serious difficulties then you have now.

 

[Three Man]

Old Fluff - Thanks. Since it may not be an issue I'll wait to hear from you. The bushing is one of those low cost NM bushings from CDNN so the bushing tolerances may be causing part of the issue.

Originally was thinking of fitting a barrel but decided to take one step at a time; so I first tried the cheap bushing and went through the fitting exercise. I never expected it to close the grouping as much as it did.
I don't need to fit a new barrel but still am thinking about it just for the experience, new tools and gauges.

HSMITH - I understood what you ment. The cost to fill in the slide slot and re-machine would cost so much more than a new springfield. But a Barrel bushing with an over sized (thicker lug) would work for a cheaper cost.

 

[Spartacus451]

Sorry to bump an old thread

But could you tell me where you found instructions for the fitting exercise? A local gunsmith put a burr on inside of my slide which deeply scratched the bushing. His solution was to polish the existing bushing instead of replacing it... I want to fit a new one to see what it will do to group size and fix the cosmetic damage.

 

[Old Fuff]

... could you tell me where you found instructions for the fitting exercise?

If you're going to do your own work you'd better buy a shop manual first. The one that's usually recommended is: The Colt .45 Automatic - A Shop Manual, by Jerry Kuhnhausen. It, and aftermarket barrel bushings are available from Brownells at (www.brownells.com)

You may also find additional information if you use this forum's search feature, and the key term "barrel bushing," or "45 barrel bushing."

What pistol/barrel you have can also make a difference. These bushings require what is called a "stepped" barrel - or one with a slightly larger outside diameter at the muzzle. They won't work with an older straight barrel (with no step at the muzzle) unless the bore in the bushing is enlarged.

 

[Spartacus451]

I looked around here and on 1911 forum, I found some instructions that I couldn't understand. Probably means I should get someone else to do it.
I was thinking of buying the bushing here:
http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=141508&highlight=EGW+bushing
This would be for a S&W 1911 with factory barrel, I do not want to buy a new barrel.