1911 Clinic. The barrel link

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link problems

New .278 link installed to replace amuch worn link.with spring anr barrel bushing removed , slide in battery the barrel is slanted down, trigger functions normaly and hammer will fall.Installing bushing pushes the barrel up and causes the slide out of battery.no trigger function and hammer won't fall. Is the link too long or too short?
 
Tuner, you say: "when the barrel is fully
down, the bottom of the barrel isn't supposed to lay in full contact with
the curved part of the frame. CORRECTLY fitted, the lug feet should
be holding the barrel just barely off the curve...about the thickness
of onion skin."

I have always fitted my pistols with a link that caused the barrel to hit both at the lug-feet and the bottom of the barrel at the same time, beliving that this will divert stress over a bigger surface than just hitting at the lug-feet.

You seem to be very well experienced in all the 1911 stuff you describe, and i belive you may enlighten me here as well?!

looking forward to you answer!
 
the lug feet should
be holding the barrel just barely off the curve...about the thickness
of onion skin."

Not by the feet...by the link in compression. If I wrote that, it was an in-haste error and I'll need to go find it and correct it.

Since that ideal is only rarely seen, it's not a critical necessity. As long as the barrel hits the vertical impact surface first, with a little clearance between the barrel and frame bed...curve...it's good to go.

Hitting the bed first, or even at the same time places stress on the link...slidestop crosspin...lower lug...and barrel. Most of the time, it stretches or breaks the link, or causes the link pin to loosen...but I've seen lugs pulled clean off the barrel, with a few cracking through to the chamber.
 
link and bed

If the link is correct (?) with the upper lugs/slots and lower lug radius/cross pin, and there is contact on the frame bed, as evidenced by Dykem movement on bed and that portion of the lower barrel that contacts the bed, it would seem that the bed would need to be lowered a bit.

(Long, drawn out sentence structure, but I did not know any other way to string it together.

If true, how?

Half round files do not match the bed contour.

Thanks,

salty
 
I have printed dang near everything that Tuner has typed.

About two reams worth.

No way to organize/index it though. At least nothing better than the 'search' feature on these two forums.

On the bright side, if the ownership/archive issues of THR get all wrapped up and go down in contentious flames, I have whats left of my memory and two large three ring binders of 1911Tuner.

Thanks Tuner.

salty
 
ball mill

Salty Dog;

Tuner's right, that is a method...but ball end mills of that radius will need to be specially ground, (= expensive), and your setup must be very rigid due to the shearing forces of a ball mill, so you will need a very good fixture.
I prefer a contoured wheel on the surface grinder. You can dress any contour (radius)you can imagine. Plus the grinder is a precision, finesse, machine that will work to the millionths...Finally, I remove the stock from the bottom of the barrel radius with a contoured wheel. Barrels vary widely from one manufacturer to another, and the frame will stay unaltered for the next barrel fit up in the future...

Jerry
 
Nice recovery Tuner!

Considering that Evert called you on something you wrote over FIVE years ago. :D
 
I think it's post #18, but I'm not sure that's what you meant. It was like yesterday though so I'm sure you can clarify it for him :)

Nope it's #20
 
Found it! It was #20 and...it was written up wrong. I corrected it for future reference.

I musta been in some kinda rush that day...

Anyway...The barrel should be held off the bed by the link in compression...but I've seen very few that did...even carefully hand-fitted pistols. Most will drop the barrel all the way to the bed after stopping on the vertical impact surface. The important thing is that the barrel doesn't hit the bed first or at the same time. As long as it stops on the VIS and drops to the frame afterward...it's good.

Thanks for the heads up on that.
 
Mr. Keefer,

I don't have anything more sophisticated than a pot metal vise and a few worn out files.

Files do not cut well when drawn backward. In my case, that may be A Good Thing.

I do get curious though.

The link and upper barrel lugs and slide slots was tough enough for me to get my head around, but when the VIS and frame bed get added to the mix, I do get more confused than usual.

salty
 
when the VIS and frame bed get added to the mix, I do get more confused than usual.

It's not complicated, Jerry. The hard part is trying to describe in detail and simple function via the written word. Sometimes that gets tough, especially when ya try to juggle 5 different things while ya bounce ack and forth between the daily scoot and the keyboard.

I'll try to do it in as few words as possible...

When the slide draws the barrel backward, the link swings through a short arc. That arc is necessary to give the bullet time to exit so the breech can open safely.

When the link reaches the limit of its arc, the barrel...still moving rearward...starts to pull on the link, and begins to swing downward on an even smaller arc.

When the upper lugs have vertically cleared the slide's lugs, the rear face of the lower barrel lug strikes the vertical impact surface...halting all rearward barrel movement...and the barrel drops the tiny amount remaining to the frame bed. This small amount clearance between barrel and frame bed is necessary to prevent stressing the link, slidestop pin, and lower barrel lug. It's not necessary to have a lot of clearance, as long as the barrel doesn't hit the bed before it hits the vertical impact surface. Even a thousandth of an inch is good, but I prefer to see a little more than that because as the bed and the barrel become carbon fouled...the clearance goes away, and the barrel then hits the bed at the same time as the VIS. While that isn't as destructive as striking the bed first...over time, it does overstress the areas mentioned...and can cause a premature failure in any of the included parts.

How soon depends greatly on how well the gun is maintained and how often it's cleaned. Clean it every 50 rounds, and you'll never have a problem. Be like me and clean it every 2,000 rounds whether it needs it or not...and you will sooner or later.

This is another reason that I tend to set my guns up a little on the loose side. Laziness. I don't like having to stop 2-3 times during a 500+ round range session to clean my gun.

Now then...You understand that when the barrel comes out of the slide, before it stops on the VIS...there must be a little clearance between the top of the barrel lug and the bottom of the slide lug. How much clearance that's necessary depends on how well the gun is fitted. A precisely built gun like Jerry Keefer builds can get by with less clearance than one that I build.

This clearance must be present even if the barrel is forced upward when it's fully linked down and on the bed.

Gravity will let the barrel drop enough to fool you into thinking that you've got enough clearance when you actually don't. A quick'n'dirty way to check for it is to whack the muzzle sharply with the heel of your hand and hold it back hard when it stops. At that point, the barrel is against the VIS and has linked down as far as it can go without gravity helping it. The slide is at the timing point for full barrel linkdown.

Now, check for the clearance. If it's there, you're probably golden.
If it's not...the barrel linkdown timing needs attention.

I know you're wondering how to know about bed impact before VIS impact...

Coat the bed or the bottom of the barrel with layout fluid. A sharpie marker will work. Assemble the gun. Whack the muzzle with your hand sharply about a half-dozen times and look at the coated area. If ink has been removed...even in spots...you need a little clearance there. If not...you're good to go.
 
Thanks for all of this.

I'm a long-time pistol owner, beginning with the Webley .455 breaktop I bought in '78 (subsequently sold in favor of something else.) All my pistols had been wheelguns until about two years ago; I saw a BEAUTIFUL Mark IV/Series 70 Government Model (blue steel, rosewood grips as shown here) at a local dealer and had to have it. There was no way around it. I've since learned that owning a 1911 is like joining an extended family.

I appreciate the information here: I'm not even remotely a pistolsmith but the forum (and the Kuhnhausen books) have helped me understand my pistol as a machine, which is important to me for some reason.
 
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This thread is great! I am new and trying to work on a M1991 A1 Officers Model bought used. Shoots way low! Like 1' at 10'. Now way sights are at fault? Had original sights when bought, I changed to night sights, front .178 rear .209, Hoped to fix or help. Did little.

Now I start looking and find link that measures long (have not removed for accurate measure- but will). Did do some checking and feel it is about .020 too long. With slide stop pin in place, lot of wobble, pin guage checks of hole in link show .201 go and .203 NG. Hole measures .202 with calipers, so about a .2015 to .203 hole. Slide stop measures .199 OD (calipers). But the link hole does not match radii of the lug, not even close, eyeball says .020-.025 proud of the radii. With slide stop assembled to loose barrel link, no match of radii of barrel lug to slide stop pin. Gap of at least .030. Slide stop pin mates to very bottom of lug in uncut area! When assembled and closed, barrel is tight to underside of slide.

I may get the gun back to accuracy/point of aim by changing the link? Go to a .178 and work from there? Or, buy a set?

Appreciate any help!
 
PHEW!

All I can say is this is one, incredible thread. The years of experience here talking to us is more valuable than any class, course or seminar we can attend. My thanks to all the people who spend their precious hours of time typing here so we can all learn from you. Without the knowledge here, this would be just another bulletin board.

Also, this has spanned 5 years! Incredible!

Many thanks!
 
Am I understanding this properly? If link is too long barrel doesn't unlock fully and causes what someone called "rolling locking lug edges" and I was taught was called flanging of barrel and slide locking lugs.
 
and I was taught was called flanging of barrel and slide locking lugs.

Flanging is the result of straight-line peening from lug setback. Seen a lot in older pistols with softer steel, and often noted on barrel and slide lugs, along with a stair-stepped appearance on one or both.

Linkdown/drop timing issues generally radius the top corners of the lugs, although a light flange may also be present. The severity of the radiusing depends on how much of the lug(s) is still vertically engaged in the slide when the barrel stops on the vertical impact surface.
 
Fascinating thread for the 1911 disciple.

From the experts here, kindly remark on the Dwyer "Group Gripper" hawked so prolifically by Wilson Combat.

Thanks.

::EDIT:: Pardon me. I see that the "Group Gripper" is addressed on page two. Never mind. I does seem to present a valid engineering concept, tho, if some elongation to the lower link pin hole is considered.
 
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