1911 compensators?

[eatatjoes]

for example, this one:

from: here

i've seen others from different sources with just plain slots and am wondering if they work at reducing recoil and muzzle rise. or are they just a waste of money?

 

[Sean Smith]

My understanding is that bushing compensators (the ones that just replace the bushing, like the one in the picture) are mostly worthless. Real compensators can reduce recoil ALOT, but are fairly expensive, loud as hell and relatively bulky.

 

[Sheldon]

I think they are a waste of money, but I have never tried one. I have never heard anyone say much for them. The main reason they wouldn't help appreciably is they are a replacement barrel bushing and the opening in the front has to be as big as the outer diameter of the barrel which would not do much to force the gasses through the comp. holes to help with muzzle flip. The whole idea of a compensator is to have the opening in the front as small as possible to allow the gasses to vent as much as possible through the comp. holes on the top to redirect gasses that would otherwise be pushing backward in an upward direction to counter the muzzle flip. More of a gimmick than anything else in my opinion. Spend the money on bullets!!!

 

[RWK]

Principally, they are a waste of money (IMHO). Even worse, they are a solution to a non-existent problem. The .45 ACP round is – by design – a big, slow, LOW PRESSURE load. Recoil is a function of MANY elements, but muzzle energy is the initiator. Are compensators really required – or desirable – when a round produces only about 400 foot-pounds of muzzle energy (frequently less)?

 

[Stevie-Ray]

Principally, they are a waste of money (IMHO). Even worse, they are a solution to a non-existent problem. The .45 ACP round is – by design – a big, slow, LOW PRESSURE load. Recoil is a function of MANY elements, but muzzle energy is the initiator. Are compensators really required – or desirable – when a round produces only about 400 foot-pounds of muzzle energy (frequently less)?

That may be true if you're using hardball, but nobody that puts a comp on a .45 uses hardball. Usually it's 185 or 200 gr SWC loads loaded to higher pressures than standard in order to "make major." Of course I'm talking about years ago. I don't even know if the same rules apply now, but that was my intention back when I did it. In this regard, my comp worked incredibly. Firing the same loads from my back to stock pistol produced a marked increase in recoil and muzzle rise. It is a full system, though, not a bushing type.

To a point, you are correct. When using factory loads, comps are best suited for higher pressure rounds, where they are used to their full potential, such as .38 Super or better still, 10mm.

 

[Adventurer_96]

I have one on a series 70 in .45 which has had some serious accurizing done to it. While I don't have any other full-size 1911s in .45 to compare it to, it's the preferred pistol for my friends and family to shoot because recoil is very, very manageable with 200gr SWC rounds. In fact, it's comparable to a .38 Midrange Gold Cup. Compared to shooting hardball a few times in borrowed 1911s of various manufacture, it's a pussycat.

I'd say if you're going to get one, do it with the integral compensator, not just a bushing.

 

[Zak Smith]

A comp on a 1911 can be very effective, but it depends on the specific comp design and the pressure & gas volume available.

RWK,

Are compensators really required ? or desirable ? when a round produces only about 400 foot-pounds of muzzle energy (frequently less)?

One could pose the question, "is a comp ever needed?" A person will be able to shoot the comp'd gun more faster, more accurately, assuming the comp works.

Stevie-Ray

That may be true if you're using hardball, but nobody that puts a comp on a .45 uses hardball. Usually it's 185 or 200 gr SWC loads loaded to higher pressures than standard in order to "make major." Of course I'm talking about years ago.

This doesn't really make sense, or I misunderstanding you. If someone wants to make "Major" - which used to be 175PF - why would they choose those bullets in particular? 230gr Hardball makes about 195PF, way over major. And even using 185 or 200gr bullets, there's no reason for "higher pressure than standard" to make major, either.

-z

 

[Sheldon]

The compensator needs gas to rocket out those top ports to really counter the muzzle flip of the pistol. The ideal combination would eliminate all muzzle flip. The 45 ACP caliber is not a high pressure cartridge but you can shoot lighter bullets faster and generate more pressure to work the comp a little better. They used to market 155gr. SWC bullets for the 45 ACP when that caliber was still considered to be the hot ticket for open class IPSC so you could shoot it even faster and generate that much more gas to work with. The 38 Super soon took over and left the 45 Acp behind as far as open class guns go.

 

[RWK]

"One could pose the question, 'is a comp ever needed?'. A person will be able to shoot the comp'd gun more faster, more accurately, assuming the comp works."

Zak,

That is a VERY good question.
> Compensators do not provide inherently greater accuracy; however, they absolutely reduce muzzle energy and velocity, thereby making the round less effective.
> I respectfully suggest that many championship level defensive marksmen fire very quickly and very accurately without the use of compensators.
> Finally, this thread concerns .45 ACP loads; if compensators are ever really desirable, I suspect it would for a much higher pressure, much higher muzzle energy rounds than the .45 Automatic.

 

[Sean Smith]

Compensators do not provide inherently greater accuracy; however, they absolutely reduce muzzle energy and velocity, thereby making the round less effective.

Porting does, but compensators do not. 2 different things.

 

[Zak Smith]

I respectfully suggest that many championship level defensive marksmen fire very quickly and very accurately without the use of compensators.

Sure, no question. My point is that they'd be faster with an effective comp.

Less muzzle rise, recoil, and gun movement equals faster aimed fire. That's one reason why a skilled IPSC shooter will be able to shoot his Open gun faster than his Limited gun. (Yes, the open gun has optics -- but it also has much less recoil and "no" muzzle flip at the same PF.)

Many in this thread have been talking about .45ACP - though the opening question merely asked about 1911's.

regards
Zak

 

[CWL]

I think that the answer has to be divided into two answers:

1) is it good for practical self-defense & carry? Probably not.

2) is it useful for speed games? Probably will improve your times if you get into competition seriously.

 

[JohnK]

Years ago I tried one of those when I was first getting into IPSC. About as usefull as hanging a weight off the end of the slide...until it flew off during a match, which of course ment the plug and recoil spring followed - DNF on that stage.

Remember all the force of the slide moveing back and forth is on those little tiny tabs in the slide. Plenty to hold a standard bushing on, but not enough for the weight of those comps.

For my money, if you want a comp get a real barrel/comp setup.

 

[mattjoe]

" If someone wants to make "Major" - which used to be 175PF - why would they choose those bullets (185 & 200s) in particular? 230gr Hardball makes about 195PF, way over major. And even using 185 or 200gr bullets, there's no reason for "higher pressure than standard" to make major, either."

Lighter bullet, less recoil, ability to generate more gas pressure to work a comp. You won't see 38 super shooters using the 147s and 160s for this reason, easier to make major with less powder at those weights, sure, but less gas pressure. Ideal weight would be 115s-125s.
The comp only works effectively on higher pressure loads.
45s they are pretty close to useless, although there is some effect.

Zak is absolutely correct, the comped open gun is faster.

 

[Owen]

Compensators do not work by the rocket nozzle effect. They work because of the momentum of the gas hitting the baffles in the compensator is transferred to the barrel. One of the results is that a heavily compensated pistol with a recoiling barrel requires slide lightening for the pistol to function. A compensator with vents pointed down works just as well, but is terrible if you are shooting prone, because of the dust and sand that will get blown around. In addition, the race gun guys are generally shooting ammo that is way out of SAAMI spec, because they need all the pressure they can get at the muzzle. They tend to use slow rifle powders in cartridges that typically use very fast powders, just so they can get as much muzzle pressure as possible.

After saying all of that, I don't think the comp pictured will accomplish much, becuase the baffles have very little surface area for the gas to act on. In fact the opening along the barrel axis is so large, that I think very little of the gas will strike the baffles. IOW, it may work, but not very well.


owen

 

[Zak Smith]

Compensators do not work by the rocket nozzle effect.

This is true for about 80% of a comp's function: all that high pressure gas moving forward slams into the baffles and "pulls" the barrel forward, drastically reducing recoil. However, the "ports" of the comp can also use that rocket nozzle effect to "steer" the muzzle in the desired direction. In a "hybrid" IPSC open gun, there are extra ports in the top which use gas pressure to negate muzzle climb, for example:

Similarly, my AR-15 has this comp. The vertical planes normal to the bullet & gas path are to reduce recoil, and the holes on the RHS and top are to "steer" the muzzle in the desired direction (down and to the left for a right-handed shooter):

-z