1911 debate

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chrt396

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First...I am a 1911 addict! I love em'!! However..there are a couple questions that I have.

#1 Why are Para and Taurus looked down upon by the gun community? Is it the dependability.., reputation, or is it just the snobbery? Are they the Yugo of 1911's?

#2 Even though the Ruger SR1911 is really hot right now, I am being told by a few dealers that the only reason they are hot is because they are cheap. All cast frame..and not of the best quality.

I have a few Kimbers, les Baer & Springfields. I paid up for some of them for I know they are quality and at this time in my life, I am able to purchase them..plus I have a great credit line! :p
My Son is wanting to get involved in target with me which is fantastic, but he has a budget. I keep pulling him off these cheap models listed above and trying to get a deal on a nicer one for him. Am I being too snobbish? Am I misguided? Do these guns actually shoot well and are they dependable? Throw a few accurate opinions or facts my way, so that I can help my kid get his first 1911, Thanks to all!
 
Tell him to look at Rock island if he's on a budget. They have great quality for the price.
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Well, IMHO, there are such varying opinions on said sub-$600 1911s that it's hard to pin-point: MIM parts, slide fit/finish, location of manufacurer and assembly, some folks we *might* be interpreting as snobs have owned/built a few dozen of these and their opinions are based in experience, customer service, etc.......

Either way, congrats on keeping your boy interested!!
 
Ruger pioneered investment casting for firearms. It's one method to keep costs down - look at the price difference between Ruger and S&W revolvers.
I don't know what your budget is but a Ruger SR1911 or Springfield Range Officer might be options. If they're too much $$$ then I'd go with a Rock Island.
 
mbopp said:
Ruger pioneered investment casting for firearms. It's one method to keep costs down - look at the price difference between Ruger and S&W revolvers.
I don't know what your budget is but a Ruger SR1911 or Springfield Range Officer might be options. If they're too much $$$ then I'd go with a Rock Island.
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Those are precisely the two I reccomended! NO ONE has them in the Tampa Bay area!! I've only called 6 or 7 places..and he wants one yesterday. I did find a NICE Springfield A-1 stainless with wood grips, ambi safety..etc for $750. I think..that this will be the one he goes for. It would do his old man proud!!!
 
My son is now 13 and loves to shoot and has fallen in love with my 1911. He shoots it very well. I have gone through many 1911's over the years but now only have two 1911's. One is a very, very nice 1* from the old Yost-Bonitz shop complete with Bar-Sto barrel (Springfield). The other is a Colt New Agent with low-mount Novak's on them (I could not get used to the trench, but the pistol runs flawlessly, so I improved the sights). I carry and shoot both. I honestly think if I was to advise my son when he is older - now this is just me - I would tell him to get a decent, stock Colt 1991A1 series 80 or Springfield Mil-Spec. Both will generally shoot great out of the box (mine always have) and tell him to save and send it off to a good smith when he figures out what he likes in a 1911 (short trigger, Heine sights, front strap checkering, arched MSH, beavertail grip safety, or that old-school look, etc.). One of those pistols will always hold their value, plus I think good pistol smiths generally like working on them. You can throw Kimber in there too - I've had some great ones - ones I wish I still had. My son will have my 1911's some day and my daughters will have my S&W M38's and 642's. Maybe they will pass them down to their kids. I'm not saying the other mentioned pistols are bad, but as of right now, this is how I am thinking.
 
I think my son was waiting til' I died off so he could get my collection..but he's impatient. Therefore, he decided to buy one! I say this for I've mentioned that concept to him in the past, and he always chuckles!
 
Chrt396:

Yes, some of us are snobs. To me the 1911 is America's pistol and as such should be made by Americans and shot by Americans. Admittably this means that I pass over some fine 1911s made where folks really don't like us. That's ok with me. To each his own.

I'm sure Ruger makes a fine 1911. I wouldn't worry about the fact that it uses cast parts. Ruger makes their living casting parts for guns and they make a good living. What would concern me is that they neglect to checker the front strap. This makes the pistol harder to shoot well. Have you son handle the Ruger and see how it feels to him. Maybe some Packmeyer grips would overcome the lack of frontstrap checkering.

If you don't trust cast. Kimber, S&W, and Colt all make 1911s with forged parts that only cost a little more. Good shooting.


Hardbawl
 
Eventhough I don't own a Ruger or Taurus I would have no problem buying either. The Para I would not buy due to a lot of claims about bad customer service. I have not experienced this but too many comments to ignore - no Para for me.

I like the Springfiled Armory pistols because of quality and great customer service, and warranty for life.
 
As far as castings go, the frame is really neither here nor there if it's a good casting. It's the slide that takes the real beating. The "gun" is the slide and barrel. The frame is essentially the gun mount. Ruger uses a machined slide.

As near as I can tell, Taurus hasn't gotten a clean handle on building revolvers yet. Can't really imagine how they'd do a lot better with a 1911.

Flame suit on...
 
In all fairness, there is tons of crap 1911 clones out there and price really does not matter...just saying!
 
Shrt396: Before you knock Ruger casting, ask around and see how many Ruger competitors are buying their frames from Pine Tree Casting. This company is a wholly owed subsidiary of Strum Ruger and manufactures many of the custom big name makers of 1911 pistols. Do you think they are using poorly made frames...I think not! Ruger's SR1911 is a quality piece will eventually out shoot the so called custom pistols. JMHO.
 
All cast frame..and not of the best quality.
Click to expand...
While I do prefer forged everything, especially on a 1911, there is nothing of poor quality about the SR1911. The one I have is very well made. I currently have over 1,300 rounds through mine.
 
A good investment cast frame is as durable and serviceable as a machined barstock frame. Ruger has proven that it's got a handle on investment casting. One need only look to the brutally strong Blackhawks and Redhawks for proof. With an autopistol, the frame doesn't take nearly as much stress as the slide. The slide is where it's all happening.
 
My S&W Pro 9MM has a cast frame. They did not even machine some of the surfaces at all. (The magwell for instance) Works like a champ. The slide is obviously machined, and very nicely. All the parts that go in the slide are very nicely done as well.
 
1911Tuner said:
(edited for brevity)
As near as I can tell, Taurus hasn't gotten a clean handle on building revolvers yet. Can't really imagine how they'd do a lot better with a 1911.

Flame suit on...
Click to expand...
Flame suit indeed. You are just quoting what you have heard and/or observed, and said as much. Nothing flame-able in that.

While I have heard a lot of complaints about Taurus revolvers and their polymer framed autos, I have not read or heard one complaint about their 1911. Indeed, some of the complainers mention the 1911 as Taurus' exception.

On the other hand, I have a Taurus 22 revolver and a compact 45 Auto that shoot just fine. Almost all my other revolvers bear the Ruger eagle (Plus one Colt trooper, one Freedom Arms and a handful of Dan Wessons). None of the Ruger semi-autos "spoke" to me. I prefer the safety on the frame. Finally, Ruger got one right in a centerfire auto.

Lost Sheep
 
#2 even though the ruger sr1911 is really hot right now, i am being told by a few dealers that the only reason they are hot is because they are cheap. All cast frame..and not of the best quality.
Click to expand...

misinformation
 
CZ, Agreed.

The Ruger is a great 1911, what makes it hot is it is Ruger that kicked it out. Known great manufacturer that has proven themselves with cast frames as others have said, and a GREAT price point. As for Taurus, they are the largest handgun manufacturer in the world. They also do know what they are doing.
 
IMO, if 1911 Tuner says something, I'd bet my life on it. He is as unbiased as anybody I've met because his opinions are formed with his hands and eyes, not some propoganda or internet hype.
 
Here's my take on Taurus (and it's just my opinion): They do just fine when they're cloning somebody else's design. Their own stuff? Maybe a little hit & miss.

My Taurus 1911 is awesome....I love it. It shoots great, has some nice features, and was decently priced.
 
IMO, Para is looked down upon by the 1911 community because of their reputation of providing poor CS. Just the opposite of what I've heard about Springfield and Ruger.

The 1911 is a classic American design. So, while I love the Springfield RO (not so much the Taurus 1911), I'm going to have to pass on both since they are products of Brazil. Ruger's SR1911 is 100-percent American-made, tight, balanced and priced right. In the $700 range, it's the one to beat.

I'm buying my first 1911 soon and it will be the Ruger.
 
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