1911 extractor loosing it's tension

[made2cut]

I've been working on getting my Springfield GI to eject reliably. The last mod I did was shorten and angle the extended Cylinder & Slide ejector and enlarge the ejection port. I took it out last night and it was spitting out the cases perfectly when I started. However, as the night wore on I noticed the cases were coming out at less of an angle and more straight up and over my head. The last rounds were going straight up and the final one got jammed in the slide :banghead:. After I got home I checked the tension of the extractor and sure enough it was loose - the live round I chambered fell straight down the mag well. The extractor was a Wilson Bullet Proof and only had about 220 rounds on it.

My question is - how many rounds do you guys normally go though before the extractor tension should be checked and or adjusted? Did I get a bad one that didn't get heat treated properly?

 

[1911Tuner]

Extractor

Question:

>My question is - how many rounds do you guys normally go though before the extractor tension should be checked and or adjusted? Did I get a bad one that didn't get heat treated properly?<
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Rarely. I've retrofitted some old USGI extractors that have gone as high as 70,000 rounds without further attention. Cylinder and Slide's extractors are made of spring-tempered steel, and should be good to go. Your magazine may be at the bottom of the problem. If it's not controlling the round correctly...most often the last round...it escapes and gets knocked into the chamber ahead of the extractor. The hook climbs the rim and either takes the tension our quickly, or breaks.


What magazines are you using?

 

[made2cut]

I'm using Wilson 8 round mags with Tripp Super Seven kits installed. Last night was the first time I used the Tripp kits. I was having a few FTF problems with the Wilson 8 round springs and the Tripp kits were recommended to me. To clarify, the extractor was a Wilson not a Cylinder and Slide.

Can you explain a little further what you meant by "The hook climbs the rim". How is the hook supposed to engage the case rim?

Thanks for your interest Tuner - I've read many of your posts trying to get this (my first) 1911 to run right. I have to say I've enjoyed working on it

 

[1911Tuner]

re:

The question:

>Can you explain a little further what you meant by "The hook climbs the rim". How is the hook supposed to engage the case rim?<
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Surely.

When the slide strips the round, the rear face of the rim should ride up the breechface and slip under the hook from the bottom. As the round starts to break over to horizontal and enger the chamber, it gets a little help from the
mag spring. The last round is critical because it's under the least tension from the magazine. Inertia during recoil is a strong player. If the cartridge isn't under full control...either by a weak mag spring or the lack of something in its way to prevent it from riding forward far enough to stay in the magazine until the extractor picks it up...it gets loose and ahead of the slide instead of being held against it. The round is literally knocked into the chamber with the slide following. Some extractors won't snap over the rim, causing a failure to go to battery. Others will...and you think that the gun is functioning fine...until the extractor starts to let go. In a properly functioning pistol, the extractor sees very little stress. Assuming that it's made of the right stuff and correctly adjusted, it should last for nearly the life of the gun.
I have a few that have outlived the original pistol, and are busy trying to wear out another one.

Read the sticky: "Controlled Feed Principles" and "Function of the Dimple." for a more detailed explanation...and bear in mind that just because the gun is runnin' is no promise that it's runnin' properly.

The Wilson Bulletproof extractors are as good as any, though a bit unyielding to function correctly as a spring...but that's easy to address. I've been using Wilson extractors for about 10 thousand rounds per gun in a couple of my range-only pistols...and I shoot'em hard...with very good service to date. So far, there's been no need to retension either one, and there have been zero failures to feed, extract, or eject.

 

[made2cut]

Hmmph... shows how much I know. I thought the extractor was SUPPOSED to climb over the rim . Do you think the ejector could be too long in conjunction with the stronger Tripp spring causing the round to be loaded ahead of the extractor?

Edited to add: I looked at some diagrams of how the lower part of the extractor should be beveled to allow the cartridge to slide underneath it. I'll double check that the bevels look right when I get home tonight.

 

[1911Tuner]

re:

Quote:

>Hmmph... shows how much I know. I thought the extractor was SUPPOSED to climb over the rim. Do you think the ejector could be too long in conjunction with the stronger Tripp spring causing the round to be loaded ahead of the extractor?
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Nope. That's why the usual advice not to drop a round into the chamber and let the slide go. The extractor was designed to allow that in an emergency...such as up to yer crack in crocodiles with no magazine...but it was never meant to function that way on a regular basis.

No. The ejector doesn't have anything to do with it, and the stronger mag spring works in your favor by exerting more pressure on the last round to keep it in the magazine. Read the suggested sticky threads at the top of the gunsmithing page and the light will come on.

 

[made2cut]

Okay, I think I pretty much understand how things operate now. I very slowly cycled the slide to check how the round was loading and sure enough it was popping up in front of the extractor. The stock extractor is just a tad longer and works better but has some slop in the fit to the pin stop which allows it to rotate (one of the reasons why I got the Wilson in the first place). At least I know what the heck is going on with this pistol now .

Thanks so much for your help. You are the MAN Tuner!

By the way if anyone is looking for the sticky's they are located here - http://forum.m1911.org/forumdisplay.php?forumid=58

 

[1911Tuner]

re:

Hand-cycling slowly is a sure way to make it jump ahead of the hook. The gun was designed to function at full speed. You did see how it can get ahead and slam the front of the hook into the case rim though. That's basically what happens when the round escapes the magazine too early or at the wrong place.