1911 firing pin questions (how it works)

[brentn]

I know what a firing pin does, we should get that straight now. But I noticed that when the hammer is down, the firing pin is NOT protruding the breech face of the slide.
On my tokarev, I noticed with the hammer down the firing pin is defenitly protruding the breech face and with a round in the chamber it could be very dangerous to carry with the hammer down.

So obviously, its the weight of the firing pin that actually strikes the primer, the hammer falls with such force that the pin overcomes the spring for just a breif fraction of a second to hit the primer.

With that being said, is it safe to carry a 1911 with the hammer down on a loaded chamber?

I'm pretty sure that even if you dropped it on the downed hammer the pin would not have enough force to hit the primer of the cartridge.
Or does it?

What do you guys think?

Do alot of other guns use similar firing pin setup's as the 1911?

 

[Linkinlog]

The biggest problem with carrying this way (IIRC it's called condition 2?) is that you have to decock to trigger with a round in the chamber. This can be dangerous and the chances of an accidental discharge are increased. I don't think that dropping the gun would be enough to cause it to fire though.

 

[BigO01]

With a series 70 1911 "No firing pin lock as the 80's have" if you dropped the gun with hammer down and it landed just right it could go off .

Guns & Ammo did a test on this years ago where they repeatedly dropped one off of a ladder and it finally after many , many drops landed on the hammer and popped a primer .

I carry in condition one as the gun was designed to be carried .

 

[Onmilo]

The thing about the 1911 or any pistol that uses the rebounding firing pin spring is that they HAVE to land on the hammer in order to be dangerous to the shooter or anybody else who might be standing around.
If the gun does land muzzle first and detonate the cartridge the bullet ends up going into the floor.

Because of the weight and balance of a loaded pistol it is very uncommon for one to land hammer to the floor when dropped from a normal height, i.e.30"-48".

 

[brentn]

so thats what its called, a rebounding hammer.. I see.

So it can still go off, the chances are just very very slim.

Well that answers that, now that I see this post I should have posted it in the autoloading section so if the mods want to move it, be my guest.

Thanks for the answers guys,

 

[1911Tuner]

Pin

The 1911 has a rebounding firing pin...not a rebounding hammer. The firing pin can reach the primer if the gun is dropped on the muzzle from a great enough height...say about 8 or 10 feet...straight down onto concrete. Inertia is the cause. Gun falls...Gun stops abruptly...firing pin keeps going.

The firing pin shouldn't protrude from the breechface with the hammer down.

Dropping the gun on the lowered hammer won't cause it to fire because the firing pin would try to move toward the hammer and away from the cartridge.
Very slightly possible if the firing pin spring is badly worn...and the pin actually bounced off the hammer and back toward the round...but highly unlikely. If the hammer is on half-cock, all bets are off.

Jim nailed the half-cock question. In Series 80 Colts and recent-production Springfields, the half-cock is a quarter-cock shelf instead of a captive notch. Pulling the trigger from the quarter-cock shelf will drop the hammer, but not with enough force to light a primer...unless the FP spring strength is nearly non-existent.

 

[brickeyee]

'Inertial firing pin' is a more common name.
The inertia the hammer imparts to then pin carries it forward to strike the primer.

 

[Jim K]

I think the term is actually "inertia firing pin" since it is the inertia of the pin that actually fires the primer. With an inertia pin, the pistol is perfectly safe with the hammer down and CANNOT fire if dropped on the HAMMER.

But, if the gun is dropped muzzle down onto a hard surface, the firing pin is free to move forward and its inertia can fire the primer if the chamber is loaded. That is the reason for the hammer block safeties on modern 1911 type pistols. True, when a gun is dropped on the muzzle and fires, the bullet will go down, but it can go down into concrete or steel where it will ricochet and be dangerous. A police officer in CA was killed when a 1911 type pistol was dropped several feet onto a steel and concrete stair and went off.

Note that this was an almost unknown occurrence in the old days. What has changed is the use of full length recoil spring guide rods. With the original setup, the slide will bounce back against the spring and absorb enough of the energy that firing is extremely unlikely. But with a FLGR, the guide rod strikes the hard surface; its rigidity prevents energy from being absorbed and the gun goes off unless it has a firing pin block.

So an unnecessary solution to a non-existent problem causes another problem with a complex and costly solution.

Jim

 

[Onmilo]

I knew there was another reason I don't like full length guide rods besides being a PITA to remove during field strip!

Inertia firing pin, that is the correct terminology.
Ahh to remember all that was learned during my misspent youth!

 

[BigG]

But with a FLGR, the guide rod strikes the hard surface; its rigidity prevents energy from being absorbed and the gun goes off unless it has a firing pin block.

So an unnecessary solution to a non-existent problem causes another problem with a complex and costly solution.

As Toona says, every time you change something you affect something else. Why do people monkey around with stuff they know nothing about? I guess because THEY CAN.

 

[Jim K]

I have often said that, hype and nonsense aside, there is one and only one purpose to a FLGR. It aids in extraction - the extraction of money from the pocket of the sucker and deposit of same into the pocket of the FLGR maker.

Every other so-called "advantage" is self-delusion.

Jim

 

[sm]

1911Tuner,
Mr. Kennan,

Titanium Firing pins often come up in similar discussions.
I do not do these, FLGR or any of the other wallet flushes as have been mentioned.

Still for those that will ask, a quick post in regard to Ti firing pins might be good here in this thread.

Thanks,

Steve