1911 half-cock question

[JohnnyOrygun]

I own a Springfield Government Model in 45acp and having extra large hands I installed a drop in grip safety to help with its tendency to pinch the web of my hand. After words I went and tested it to make sure that I had everything back together right, specifically sear spring alignment (had issue once with previous gun going full auto on me after sear spring alignment error...not fun) everything worked just fine.
Then later I noticed that if the gun was in the half cock position (not using it for safety, just happened to not get hammer all the way down while "decocking" it, it was unloaded) that if I pulled the trigger the hammer would fall the rest of the way. I had never tried this before, so I am not sure if this is correct or if something is out of alignment. I have had no problems with this gun as far as double tapping or going full auto on me, so I know the sear spring alignment is ok. If anyone can help me with this, I would be very grateful.

Thanks all and keep up the good work, I really enjoy THR.

 

[Jim Watson]

Colt quit using a real captive half cock notch when the Series 80 firing pin block guns came out. They call it a "safety stop."

Springfield dropped the true half cock about the time they went to the ILS key lock or even before. All that ledge is for is to try to stop the hammer if it falls off full cock, there is no time that the hammer should rest on it in normal operation.

There is nothing wrong with your gun.

 

[JohnnyOrygun]

Thanks for quick response!!

Ok, thank you for such a quick response. My springfield does have the ILS, I don't use it, I suppose it does have its positive points, but this is my bedside gun so I don't want to be fumbling with a tiny key in the middle of the night if something bad happens.

 

[Misfire99]

I don't want to piss anybody off but if it was my gun I would want the half cock to not fire the pistol. I am sure a new hammer would fix the "feature" of this gun.

I just checked out a bunch of pictures on Brownells of 1911 hammers. All of them had a capture notch for the half cock. Here are some links:http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=16440&title=1911+AUTO+ULTRALIGHT+HAMMER
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=5527&title=1911+AUTO+SERIES+70+HAMMER+%26+SEAR
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=8727&title=1911+AUTO+HAMMER

I have a Chip McCormick in my 1911 38 super race gun.

If it was my gun I would put another hammer in it for the added safty of the half cock. But that's just my opinion.

You're gonna shoot your eye out!!

 

[Jim Watson]

The safety stop is so low on the hammer face it is more like a quarter cock than half. I tried it, and it will not fire the round in the chamber. To quote a usually reliable source (me) there is no reason to ever put the hammer on the stop.

Springfield has made some three notch hammers with safety stop, half cock and full cock. I don't know why.

 

[Sylvan-Forge]

Maybe give Springfield a buzz and see what they have to say.

Best of luck.

 

[1911Tuner]

if it was my gun I would want the half cock to not fire the pistol.

No need to be concerned, Misfire. With the firing pin spring that they use with the ILS system, it's a wonder that the gun will fire from full cock...

But, Jim called it. The hammer doesn't fall far enough to gain the momentum needed to drive the pin into the primer from the quarter-cock shelf.

 

[horge]

With the firing pin spring that they use with the ILS system, it's a wonder that the gun will fire from full cock...

Johnny, you made my day.

 

[Old Fuff]

Springfield Armory buys their hammers from vendors, they don't make them. In fact they don't actually manufacture anything that goes into their 1911 style pistols. For reasons pointed out by Tunner they can use either style of hammer - those with a ledge, or those with a half-cock notch.

However there could be a problem for those that choose to scrap the ILS system, which by the way isn't a safety device, but a lock. If in making the conversion a new 1911 firing pin and spring is substituted for the original one a hammer with a half-cock notch might offer a little additional insurance.

Makers of aftermarket hammers have no way of knowing what make, model or kind of pistol their products may end up in. So they often come with a half-cock notch (that can be altered to a ledge if that's what you want), or offered in both styles.

 

[John Holbrook]

By golly they have "updated", "fixed" and "modernized" the old 1911 so much that it WON'T WORK anymore!!!!!!

It will only be totally safe when it won't work at ALL....

 

[Jim Watson]

You are right, John. I recall the NRA report on a Springfield Armory, Inc. repro M1 some years ago. They said it shot, but would have been rejected by an Army inspector because of the quarter inch knot in the handguard.

By the way, Fuff, you cannot replace the (titanium) firing pin in a Springfield Armory Inc "1911A1" with a real 1911 firing pin; they use their own part, smaller than Colt .45, larger than Colt .38. Ed Brown makes a correct steel firing pin.

 

[Old Fuff]

Fuff, you cannot replace the (titanium) firing pin in a Springfield Armory Inc "1911A1" with a real 1911 firing pin; they use their own part, smaller than Colt .45, larger than Colt .38. Ed Brown makes a correct steel firing pin.

Your right, and I should have said, "1911 style," or "length."

However speaking for myself, if it was my pistol a pin reamer would make the hole in the slide so it fit a standard 1911 firing pin in short order. Things like this is the reason I bought a set of USGI/1911A1 blueprints. No way would I find myself dependent on one or two specialized sources for parts.

 

[briansp82593]

I had a bad experience with firing a gun on half cock (beretta 96) it was the lightest primer strike i ever seen, yet it went off (safe direction) but i just wasnt expecting it to.

 

[1911Tuner]

Springfield firing pins can be something of a nuisance. I have two Springfields with the proprietary pin diameter. I ordered two spares for each gun for about 6 bucks a copy.

By the way...for those who are busy contemplating using a needle file on the quarter-cock shelf in order to turn it into a captive half-cock notch...It won't work, and it could make it possible for the hammer to strike the firing pin should the hooks fail or should they lose contact with the sear.

 

[JohnnyOrygun]

Wow, quick responses and I have to say a lot of them. I never use the half cock or half ledge as a safety, I was letting the hammer down on an empty chamber and didn't get it all the way down and afterwards I noticed it wasn't fully down and thought I would check to see if it would fire from what I thought was a "half cock" and by golly it did drop the hammer all the way with a pull of the trigger. Next time I am at the range I will have to see if it would develop enough energy from "half cock" to fire a live round. The only reason I wasn't sure about this to begin with is way back when I had my first 1911 a Colt Combat Commander series 70 it seems to my memory that it wouldn't fire from half cock, but then again like I said I have never used the half cock as a safety, so really I would never intentionally have a loaded gun that is half cocked.... seems that is where the old say "going off half cocked" came from. Again I know that is from the days of the Single Action Colts.

Thanks all for the very useful info and insights. Just reinforces my thought that THR is a really great website.

 

[AndyC]

Darn, and I'd focused on the Springfield because I had thought it was all 1911-spec. Are there any other parts which are peculiar to the Springfield?

Old Fluff - is it a big job to do ream out the FP tunnel?

 

[Jim Watson]

The frame.

Older Springfields were very blocky in the front strap and dust cover, but they have improved that.
What remains is that the frame tangs are not the same as Colt and if you should want to install a beavertail grip safety on a Milspec or GI that would have to be taken into account. Either by using the S&A with .220" radius instead of the usual .250" radius or by doing some extra contouring or even welding.

 

[JohnnyOrygun]

I replaced the hammer on my SA 1911 A1 with a commander hammer from an old series 70 Combat Commander I used to have. Now the half-cock works like it's supposed to, hammer will not drop from half-cock when I pull the trigger. I haven't had a chance to fire it yet, but all appears to be working. It was a little tricky getting it all back together after I removed the safety, didn't realize you have to let the hammer down before you remove the hammer. Took a few tries, but I finally got it back together. I do love the 1911, it's a great gun. Just a little heavy for everyday concealed carry, IMHO

 

[VARifleman]

It won't fall from half cock on my baer with a pull of the trigger. Not that I ever have a reason for it to be in that position other to keep it from firing in the even of hammer follow (I haven't messed with the trigger so that shouldn't be a problem).