1911 jams

[PinnedAndRecessed]

Went to the range today with two 45s: a highly modified Mark 4/Series 70 and Sig 220ST. I used reloads (230 grain SWC plated + 6.0 grains Unique) and PMC 230 round nose (also plated).

The Sig functioned flawlessly.

The Colt, however, jammed five times out of 150 rounds.

Twice the cartridge jammed on the feed ramp.

Three times the spent case was turned 180 degrees with the mouth of the case against the firing pin hole: twice with the reloads and once with the PMC. It's never happened before.

Any suggestions? And don't tell me to have the feed ramp lowered. It's already got that. The slide has also been tightened, 3.5 pound trigger, sold bushing, ambi safety, etc.

Thanx in advance.

 

[Old Fuff]

>> ... a highly modified Mark 4/Series 70 ... And don't tell me to have the feed ramp lowered. It's already got that. The slide has also been tightened, 3.5 pound trigger, sold bushing, ambi safety, etc. <<

I think the "highly modified" part may have something to do with it. I suspect that the "case flipped backwards" is an ejector/extractor issue, possibly aggravated by something in the recoil spring system. The "nose against the feed ramp" could be related to the overall length of the cartridge, the extractor and/or the magazine.

Any time you make "extensive" changes you invite trouble. I would be willing to bet that your very reliable SIG P-220 was using stock magazines and the pistol hadn't been messed with.

As it is, it's hard to make more specific suggestions because I haven't the slightest idea what all of your modifications were.

 

[PinnedAndRecessed]

>> ... a highly modified Mark 4/Series 70 ... And don't tell me to have the feed ramp lowered. It's already got that. The slide has also been tightened, 3.5 pound trigger, sold bushing, ambi safety, etc. <<

As it is, it's hard to make more specific suggestions because I haven't the slightest idea what all of your modifications were.

Ejection port modified for more consistent ejection; feed ramp lowered; 18 pound recoil spring; beveled magazine well; Swenson ambi safety; Smith and Wesson adjustable sights; Hogue grips; trigger lightened to 3.5 pounds; satin nickeled finish; Wilson solid bushing; slide fitted to frame. That's it.

 

[R.H. Lee]

Maybe the slide to frame fit is too tight. Make sure you have enough lube/oil. Some 1911's like a lot. Try a new magazine with a strong (11lb.) spring.

 

[PinnedAndRecessed]

Maybe the slide to frame fit is too tight. Make sure you have enough lube/oil. Some 1911's like a lot. Try a new magazine with a strong (11lb.) spring.

I think you're probably right. I'm kinda stingy with oil. I'll try again tomorrow with lotsa oil. Then if that doesn't work I'll switch springs.

 

[1911Tuner]

Feed Ramp

Mornin' guys,

I had a few minutes before I had to get crackin' and saw this one...

"Has had the feed ramp lowered" I'm a little puzzled...and concerned. If you mean that the feed ramp was cut farther down into the frame...cool...as long as the smith that did it knew how...AND it needed to be cut. Very few need to be. If you mean that the top of the feed ramp was modified at the corner where it comes together with the bottom of the barrel throat...it might be royally screwed up.

I've seen some frames with that modification done after the owner decided to do a
"Ramp and Throat Job" and figured that rolling or radiusing that corner would help the round feed into the throat smoother...and what it did was to let the round run straight into the bottom of the barrel throat...which tends to stop it cold, before it can slide into the throat. Bad JuJu. If that's what's been done to the frame...you might be in for some trouble. Maybe salvageable, but tricky to do.

Standin' by....(It'll be about 6 Eastern before I can get back.)

 

[Old Fuff]

Ejection port modified for more consistent ejection; feed ramp lowered; 18 pound recoil spring; beveled magazine well; Swenson ambi safety; Smith and Wesson adjustable sights; Hogue grips; trigger lightened to 3.5 pounds; satin nickeled finish; Wilson solid bushing; slide fitted to frame. That's it.

Of the list, the two likely suspects are the feed ramp modification, and the 18 pound recoil spring along with the possibility of a too tight/too dry frame/slide fit. This leads us to more questions:

Were these jams something new, or has this sort of thing happened before?

Were the jams random, or did they occur on the last shot, first shot or in between?

Is the barrel the original one or an aftermarket replacement (especially a “match barrel?â€)

Have you checked to see if the ejector might be loose?

Did you check extractor tension, and have any modifications/adjustments been made to the extractor?

Are you using any shok-buffs or a non-standard recoil spring system (other then the spring)?

What magazines were you using? (brand and capacity).

The more we know the better we can figure something out.

 

[boofus]

Jamming is just a feature!

 

[Old Fuff]

boofus!

I will get you all ... :banghead:

 

[PinnedAndRecessed]

"Has had the feed ramp lowered" I'm a little puzzled...and concerned. If you mean that the feed ramp was cut farther down into the frame...cool...as long as the smith that did it knew how...AND it needed to be cut. Very few need to be. If you mean that the top of the feed ramp was modified at the corner where it comes together with the bottom of the barrel throat...it might be royally screwed up.

Thanx Tuner. I don't know what the smith did. It was done by Trapper Guns in Michigan. At the time, if I shot anything other than FMJ 230 ammo, it constantly jammed. Trapper fixed it by "throating the barrel", whatever that means. He performed the modification on 11-1-1978. Since that time I've averaged about 100 rounds per year. (Sheesh! When you put it like that, I'm not doing much shooting.)

Anyway, I think the problem might be improper lubrication. I had just gotten it back from a local gunsmith who, as per the advice of this forum, replaced my collet bushing with a solid bushing. I just took it straight to the range. Now I realize it was bone dry.

That's especially bad since the slide was tightened to the frame (by Jim Clark, Sr) and the gun has a satin nickel finish. I'm on my way to the range to see if a little oil solves the problem.

I'll let youse know what happens.

 

[Old Fuff]

Well to start with, I know Trapper, and I also know that he knows what he’s doing.

My next question would be. Did Clark do the plating, or was this done by someone else after he worked on the gun? Plating the gun would build up the surface, and if Jimmie didn’t know it was going to be plated the combination of tightening plus plating would have made things too tight. Perhaps a little hand cycling of the slide with some of Tuner’s famous slurry would help and not hurt the plating. Another trick on tight fitting slides is to LIGHTLY coat the frame and slide rails with case lubricant, of the kind used by handloaders. This is a light oil or grease that won’t squeeze out when under pressure of two tight surfaces. This is far better then over-oiling things, which will cause other problems of its own.

Meanwhile we’ll wait and see on the range visit went.

 

[Dave Sample]

"Plated" or copper jacketed 230 grain semi-wadcutters are very hard to feed in the best 1911's. It's a great shape in lead, but lousy in plated bullets. I doubt if it's overly tight from Plating because Electroless Nickle is very forgiving and very slick. It could make a difference without any lube at all, so we will see if that helps. I also do not understand "Lowering the Feedramp" and have no idea what that is about? Old Fuff is right again! I do have a lot to learn! I have polished hundreds of them but have never lowered one and the barrel bed is never touched by me, either. I think an 18 LB is reduntant but doubt if it is the villan either. I will leave this one up to the experts here. I am betting on the ammo and the lack of lube.

 

[1911Tuner]

Lower the Ramp

Quote:

>> I also do not understand "Lowering the Feedramp"<<

When the feed ramp isn't cut far enough down into the front of the magwell.
I'm a little fuzzy on the specs...but I beleeeeeve... that it's .460 from the top of the frame rail to the bottom of the cut. I might be mistaken...It's been a while since I ran into one that wasn't cut right.

P&R...have you checked the barrel throat to see if it sits a 32nd inch (minimum)
forward of the top of the ramp? It can be a little more...but not less. If it's good, stick a 16-pound spring in it and see if it gets better. Try a known good magazine too...magazines are generally about 80% of the feedin' problems with 1911s.

Another thing...I've never seen or heard tell of a 230 grain SWC bullet. Are ya sure it's not a truncated cone? Kinda the same shape as a Hydra-Shok or a
PMC Starfire bullet...

Standin' by...

 

[PinnedAndRecessed]

Well to start with, I know Trapper, and I also know that he knows what he’s doing.

My next question would be. Did Clark do the plating, or was this done by someone else after he worked on the gun? Plating the gun would build up the surface, and if Jimmie didn’t know it was going to be plated the combination of tightening plus plating would have made things too tight. Perhaps a little hand cycling of the slide with some of Tuner’s famous slurry would help and not hurt the plating. Another trick on tight fitting slides is to LIGHTLY coat the frame and slide rails with case lubricant, of the kind used by handloaders. This is a light oil or grease that won’t squeeze out when under pressure of two tight surfaces. This is far better then over-oiling things, which will cause other problems of its own.

Meanwhile we’ll wait and see on the range visit went.

Fuff, Trapper did the nickle plate. And I've fired the gun about 2000 rounds since then. I honestly think because it was bone dry and has an 18 pound recoil spring that it just wasn't cycling properly.

But you say you know Trapper? If I remember correctly, his name was Trapper Alexiou in Frasier, Michigan. I've tried to find him since then but have not been successful. Is he still in business?

 

[PinnedAndRecessed]

Quote:


Another thing...I've never seen or heard tell of a 230 grain SWC bullet. Are ya sure it's not a truncated cone? Kinda the same shape as a Hydra-Shok or a
PMC Starfire bullet...

Standin' by...

You guys are too good for me. I checked my reloads. The SWC plated bullets are 200 grain. The 230s are round.