1911 Pot Metal Parts

[Furncliff]

My wife gave me an RIA 1911 tactical for Christmas. Slide release broke today. If I am going to replace pot metal parts I might as well do it all and get it over with. It's my first 1911. I'd like your advice on which parts to get and where to get em.

Thanks

Tom



P.S. If I call RIA I figure they'll just send me more pos pot metal.

 

[mpthole]

I'd still get a replacement from RIA. Every manufacturer can turn out a bad part every now and then. The slide stop on my RIA has seen over 10k rounds. Still... if this is going to be a carry gun, I'd get at least 500-1000 rounds through it before I'd trust it again.

If you still want to put replacement parts in, I've had good success with Cylinder & Slide and Ed Brown.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

If it is really pot metal, it is mostly zinc and a magnet will not stick to it. It is in all likelihood a casting, however. There is good casting and bad casting, and this part is stressed fairly hard. Advanced Tactical (the importer) will probably send you a new one.

 

[45auto]

What part of the slide stop broke?

 

[Furncliff]

The very tip broke.


I want to correct what I said about pot metal parts.. I meant to say mim parts, not pot metal.

 

[weisse52]

Furn,

If you replaced all the MIM parts with quality parts, then have fitted, you will most likely exceed the cost of the RIA. I agree, get another part from the importer.

I am not a fan of MIM parts. They break. Some are quick to defend them, and that is the power of the internet. But given a choice I will pick bar stock. Problem is without MIM parts companies cannot make the price point that the public wants to pay.

 

[Old Fuff]

The older Colt's had slide stops that were made from forgings. Somehow I think there was a reason.

Today the higher quality ones are machined from bar stock, which I would call better but not equal to the older ones.

If you get very lucky, you might find an older one in some vendor's parts offering. By all means buy a new slide stop, but do keep your eyes open because the better stuff is still out there.

 

[pilroler]

Quick thread hijack
Fuff-How do us amateur and semi-pro pistol people tell the different materials and production methods apart. I always feel at the mercy of the seller and I think you'll agree there are a few out there that will take advantage. Any thoughts would be appreciated

Pilrole

 

[Gun Slinger]

Look for a "mold line" that runs the along the center of any dimension of the particular part in question. They tend to be subtle, but they are present. Then you can pitch them.

Like many here, I have a strong dislike and mistrust of MIM parts (just a different 'sintering' process that still uses powdered metal as it starting point) since I consider them just a step removed from the zinc "pot metal" of day's past.

I know that they are not zinc and that they use steel and other metals, but I still consider them to be "junk technology" at its worst. None of the guns that I have have MIM parts on them and if/when I find them on gun they come off the gun and into the garbage.

Despite the fact that manufacturers use thme to meet a "price point", I'd rather they didn't as I would rather just pay more for the gun as opposed to have to go through the trouble and expense of changing out all the MIM junk parts.

Bar stock and "forgings" rule.

GS

 

[Furncliff]

I guess Fusion Firearms is making a FORGED slide stop (as fluff suggested) because I found one on ebay. Looks like about $30......

 

[Rustynuts]

Wilson Combat sells steel parts.

 

[grendelbane]

MIM parts are steel. MIM may not be the best way to manufacture a steel part, but it is steel. Colt uses MIM parts in their guns.

Now, I prefer the old ways myself. However, I am old enough to have purchased some of these guns before MIM technology took off.

I do have a beater, assembled on a cast Doublestar frame. It contains an MIM hammer, sear, and disconnector. Many of the other parts are investment cast. Surprise!, the extractor is genuine WWII surplus!

MIM parts are going to be a way of life. My Doublestar beater I trust, but only because I have put several thousand rounds through it. It is not the prettiest Gov't model or clone that I own, but it has turned out to be one of the most reliable. Though I admit that I have not put my early 50s Colt Commander through the wringer. It has been flawless, but not received anywhere near the use that the Doublestar has.

I just wanted to throw my $0.02 worth in. If you are going to use MIM parts for serious purposes, be prepared to run through a case of ammunition. Most failures occur in infancy, as your experience demonstrates.

If you go back far enough, you will discover that the early M1911s were made of a softer steel than what is used today. Not that they weren't good pistols, just that they did not have the service life that later pistols did.

 

[Old Fuff]

I just wanted to throw my $0.02 worth in. If you are going to use MIM parts for serious purposes, be prepared to run through a case of ammunition. Most failures occur in infancy, as your experience demonstrates.

I sure am glad Uncle Sam wasn't using MIM parts during World War Two. We would have never had enough pistols...

And I would observe that at today's prices, a case of .45 ammunition would go a long way toward buying quality parts...

 

[.45FMJoe]

Colt uses MIM parts in their guns.

Only 3, and those parts are not subject to abuse.

 

[BigO01]

If you were to replace the parts with all Wilsons that are listed as being machined from Bar stock it would cost you $182.70 + shipping .

It would get you these parts , Barrel Link , Slide Stop , Extractor , Firing Pin Stop , Sear and Hammer .

When looking at Grip Safeties , Barrel Bushings , Firing pins and several other parts the manufacturing process isn't specified other than to say "High Quality" .

 

[Gun Slinger]

I'd happily pay another $200-$300 for a gun that contained no MIM parts just for the fact that I would not have to go through the hassle of changing them out at a later time.

GS

 

[Old Fuff]

I'd happily pay another $200-$300 for a gun that contained no MIM parts just for the fact that I would not have to go through the hassle of changing them out at a later time.

Then you and others that feel that way should e-mail Colt, Smith & Wesson, Taurus, Rock Island Arsenal, Springfield Armory, Kimber SIG-USA, STI, Charles Daly, and any other makers I've left out, and tell them exactly that. Sooner or later one of them might take a hint.

 

[sturmgewehr]

Don't feel bad, you could have spent even more on a Kimber with the same results.

 

[Gun Slinger]

Then you and others that feel that way should e-mail Colt, Smith & Wesson, Taurus, Rock Island Arsenal, Springfield Armory, Kimber SIG-USA, STI, Charles Daly, and any other makers I've left out, and tell them exactly that. Sooner or later one of them might take a hint.

I'd probably be better off beating my head against a brick wall. Seems like depressing the price point with low quality, 'sub-spec.' parts is the "Wave of the future" with our gunmakers.

Thanks for the suggestion, though.

GS

 

[wally]

Or you could have went with "better" brands:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=295479

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=150195

Or paid a whole lot more:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=288693

Everyone makes a bad gun from time to time, its how they make it right that matters. API will send you a replacement part for free if you just call. Once the "infant mortality" failures are sorted out these parts perform fine -- I've got over 12000 rounds thru my oldest RIA.

Get the replacement part and spend your money on ammo. Shoot a lot, when something breaks fix it and repeat. If you've never broken a gun you just ain't shooting enough!

--wally.

 

[Old Fuff]

Everyone makes a bad gun from time to time, its how they make it right that matters. API will send you a replacement part for free if you just call. Once the "infant mortality" failures are sorted out these parts perform fine --

I suppose this is fine if your pistol is a play-toy, but if you really depend on it then you have the unhappy choice of running several hundred (or more) rounds through the gun to see if it's going to fail, (all at your expense of course), and then hope that it won't fail later - if indeed it hasn't already.

If you are satisfied with this... well O.K. But the Old Fuff never ever had to test his older pistols to see if they were going to break down, and Uncle Sam didn't either.

If the parts are questionable I won't carry any handgun. That's why I depend on hardware that was made before the bean-counters took over.

End of rant...

 

[Walkalong]

Don't feel bad, you could have spent even more on a Kimber with the same results.

My Kimber has a Wilson thumb safety and "bullet proof" slide stop in it. First thing I did when I got it. Oh, and a Wilson hammer pin.

 

[Rustynuts]

Be aware that even machined parts can, and do, fail. Just less probability I would assume. I had a barrel lug break off in a brittle fracture on a new out of the box gun. OK, it was only a KelTec! But the barrels are still machined from solid bar stock, 4140 ordnance grade, 48 HRC hardness. You are still at the mercy of the original steel maker, heat treatments, etc.

All parts/guns need to put through the proving grounds at the range. A bad part will usually fail fairly early due to defects. So shoot early, shoot often!

 

[45auto]

I think you need to insist that high quality MIM is used IMO.

It's here to stay and manufacturers won't be going to machined steel any time soon, unless you want to pay substantially more for already high priced guns.
Or, you want cast parts instead. You'll find cast parts in $2,000+ guns now...but no MIM. Is that better?

Sig 1911's don't use MIM and it's hard to tell whether that's good or bad since they had, at least, a "rough" entry in the market...for non-working guns.

I've gotten tens of thousands of rounds with a MIM sear and disconnector. The Springfield Pro, uses a MIM slidestop and mag catch, as far as I know.
And that 1911, is probably one of the heaviest shot and most tested 1911 in "service" today. Notice it doesn't use MIM sears or hammers...so you can make your case either way!

 

[wally]

Sorry, I just can't imagine anyone buying a gun for "serious purposes" and *not* planning to run many hundreds if not thousands of rounds thru it to be prepared and well practiced.

--wally.