Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by stchman, Aug 23, 2016.
A high price tag does not guarantee a reliable gun. While they are typically much more durable than a $130 pistol, the only way to guarantee a reliable gun is to test it, regardless of the brand.
2.most of the people who buy those guns are not 'gun people', and have no idea how poorly made some of them really are.
It just depends. I actually have a certain respect for Hi Point. They're not the best gun in the world, granted, but they work. It provides an option for those on a budget, at least temporarily, until they can save up the money for a Glock or whatnot. Think of a single mother on minimum wage, living in the ghetto with small children. Let's say something happens that forces her to get a gun right now, like a death threat from her ex or unwanted advances from a neighbor or something, a break-in next door, whatever. The Hi Point allows her to get a gun that day and still be able to buy food.
Speaking of the LCP, and it's wonderful new low price, I have a gen 1 LCP and one of the new ones since they lowered the price. The gen 1 is a solid little gun, never had any problems with it. The new one, however, is a piece of junk. The magazine doesn't catch right, and it won't lock unless you push up first, then push it forward. The magazine that came with the gen 2 LCP is also of conspicuously lower quality. The original mags said Made in Italy. These new ones say Made in America, and mine only takes 5 out of 6 rounds and still locks. I called Ruger about these problems, and they told me that the gen 2 was "designed that way." But I digress...
My point is that some of the "respected" guns going for low, low prices aren't any better than the saturday night specials. I would take a Hi Point over an LCP at any price. At least I can count on the Hi Point to go bang when I pull the trigger. IMO, the original Kel Tec is probably better than the LCP nowadays, which is a tragedy. In turn, some of the value prices guns might no be all that bad. Canik comes to mind. I don't have one, but I've heard good things. SCCY is another I wouldn't dismiss out of hand.
I don't have any experience with other brands of suspect quality, so I can't speak to them. From what I've read, though, they're really hit and miss. Some work, some don't. And the ones that work out of the box might not work for very long. There's also a debate as to what constitutes a saturday night special. I would lump Taurus, Kel Tec, and Charter Arms into that pool, and other would vehemently disagree.
I wouldn't call it cheap. Most plastic fantastics use a combination of stamped metal, polymer, and cast or MIM parts for the internals. That's pretty standard these days, and there's nothing wrong with stamped metal, so long as it's the right application. MIM, on the other hand...I'll take the old cast parts over MIM, but that's my opinion.
I don't trust my life to a gun unless I have tested it and have confidence it works and I can hold, aim and hit with it at reasonable ranges. Currently those include a H&K USP .40, a Rossi 58 .38, and a Raven .25, all of which have haters.
Would I buy a low price alloy frame from a low prestige maker? Only if I could testfire it. No test, no buy. I would recommend others to have the same policy.
If it works don't fix.
Yes, you are
You realize those are all the same guns right?
enthusiast's board, we tend to forget that not everyone is an enthusiast or has money. Hi-Point markets to those people, not us.
For me, it was an RG25.
I still have it. It still puts bullets where you point it at 12 to 15 feet.
They are all simple blowbacks but will not interchange many parts.
The brands that are actually the same, divided into groups:
Jennings, Bryco, Jimenez Arms (Bryco was shut down by frivolous lawsuits, and bought by plant foreman, Paul Jimenez. Jimenez dropped many models and continues to produce the mainstays of the Bryco lineup to this day.)
Davis, Cobra (Cobra buys defunct Davis Industries and removes buffer assembly most likely responsible for early slide failures present on P380. Cobra also bought and currently produces the entire lineup of derringers formerly built by Davis.)
Lorcin, Cobra (Cobra bought Lorcin tooling and redesiged the slide on the LC380/LC32. All other models, such as the 9mm, .25 auto, and .22lr were dropped.)
Raven, Phoenix (Raven burned down and reopened as Phoenix, still run by George Jennings at the time. The company later discontinued the MP25 in favor of the HP22/HP25.)
Cobra is sort of like a black hole for inexpensive firearms, snapping up defunct manufacturers, or at least buying their tooling. Their willingness to adapt is impressive. While other companies like Phoenix Arms and Jimenez build basically the same exact line as they have for decades, Cobra has also bought out Talon and Republic Arms as well as producing a couple of newer models and color options.
I don't think parts interchange even within the same year, make and model of pistol even if they're from the same production run.
There is almost no pride of ownership with these guns. They are like disposable utility knives. But they seem to work and if I felt the need for a nearly disposable gun for self defense, I'd buy one. I just wouldn't shoot it much.
Yes, they will. I know this for a fact. Cheap as they may be, parts are pretty cheap too, and I've fixed plenty of them.
Things like frames crack often in moderate calibers and that can't be fixed. Every Lorcin .380
I have ever seen had a cracked frame.
There is a surprising amount of people who will tell others they need to wait until they've saved up xxx$ for their carry gun, even it it will take six months. However, those same people won't leave their house tomorrow unarmed.
But I do agree that $200 Taurus pistol deals all but eliminate the need to buy any cheaper centerfire pistol for most people who want to become serious about home and self defense responsibility.
The fact that so many people do rely on guns like that leads me to believe that people don't often take this kind of thing all that seriously. So I'm surprised when people only want to get serious when the Lorcin's come out.
If you are "serious", select modern, first quality, unmodified firearms for your defense. Otherwise you're throwing stones from a glass house complaining about other less than perfect firearms.
This is my feeling. Your life is worth getting a good gun, but beyond that you're just gratifying yourself. A custom Nighthawk 1911 is no more reliable than a Glock.
People also have to realize that carry guns get a lot of wear. If you value the finish on a firearm, don't carry it much, especially if it's just blued. And if you're shooting as often as you should be, then it's not going to be a safe queen by any means. They're tools to be used up and discarded when necessary, not status symbols.
Some times an inexpensive , reliable gun, is a better choice for most people. Lets face it in this case you get what you can afford , for some of us, it's what you can afford to throw away. So just maybe if you look at it that way, there is a place for these guns , as long as they work .
Whereas I don't care if it's a 5000 dollar 1911, cheap glock, or something else. If the police have it. It did it's job and was worth every penny.. Even if it never gets returned or beat up in custody. Definitely the last thing only mind when choosing a defensive gun.
Anything too cheap is going to have some serious cost cutting to live with. If you have to go cheap, understand the limitations. For zamak guns it is going to be service life and ergonomics, but maybe not reliability when new.
Too expensive and there is likely to to be customization or "features" that could negatively impact reliability or safety. Great for competition, but anything that is "tuned" can come out of tune. Guns that work perfectly right out of the box tend to not be very expensive.
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