1911 Question

[Bmont2409]

I recently purchased a Citadel compact 1911 and the first trip to the range the slide locked up after about 30 rounds. When I inspected it I found the firing pin stop and slipped down and wouldn't allow the slide to move forward.I am having trouble figuring out how this can happen unless maybe the firing pin spring is weak and allowed the pin to move forward far enough to clear the stop, allowing it to drop down. Has anyone seen or heard of this before/

 

[rcmodel]

Replace the firing pin spring.
While you have it out, clean the pin & stop as dirt may be keeping the FP from fully entering the stop.

It wouldn't hurt a thing either to replace the firing pin stop with one that fits the slide better.
EGW makes oversize stops that can be fitted to the slide perfectly.
See this:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=367419&highlight=1911+firing+pin+stop

rc

 

[1911Tuner]

It's actually pretty common with Colt Series 80s. They use a shortened, soft firing pin spring in those.

 

[Bmont2409]

1911 problem

Thanks for the quick responses, I will replace spring and firing pin stop and give it another try.

 

[amflyer]

I may be wrong Tuner, but aren't the Citadel Series 70? My RIA was anyway.

 

[1911Tuner]

Don't know if the Citadel has the original system or the Series 80-type...but soft firing pin springs will let the fp stop fall and tie up the gun or puke the firing pin and spring out the back of the slide.

I just mentioned that it happens more frequently with Series 80 pistols.

 

[bigfatdave]

As far as I know, my Citadel Compact (officer size) is pre-series-80, essentially being GI spec in the fire-control department.

And my FP stop plate is a snug fit, I suggest contacting Citadel or Armscor directly for parts. Get a spare recoil spring while you're at it.

 

[cuba]

If your FPS fits loose try dimpling the back with a sharp punch and see if it will tighten it up.

Cuba

 

[Jim K]

Just FWIW, the FP stop doesn't "slip down"; what happens is just a bit more complicated, and you have to think outside those nice neat pictures of how the 1911 works.

When the slide comes back, it doesn't give the hammer a gentle push back and down. Especially with hot loads, it hits the hammer such a blow that the hammer flies completely free of the slide, moving down on its own momentum until it bounces off the grip safety.

Meanwhile, the firing pin has not returned from striking the primer and gun is recoiling upward. With the firing pin forward, the FP stop, obeying Mr. Newton, tries to remain where it is and moves down in relation to the slide. Most pictures make it look like that is impossible because the hammer is in contact with and holding it, but the hammer is not, as explained above.

The best suggestion (other than to reduce the load) is probably to peen or stake the FP stop. A stronger FP spring might solve the FP stop problem but create other problems, such as causing misfires.

Jim

 

[bigfatdave]

and ... now I want a high-speed camera

1911tuner and Jim K ... it should only take minimal peening to get it to stay in place, correct? Both of mine (and every similarly constructed pistol slide/FP setup I have) are in there pretty snugly, whether by luck or proper fitting, I don't know.
What about a dab of blue loctite on the sides? The forces conspiring to let it move downward (or more properly, let the gun go upward without it) can't be that violent, it shouldn't take a lot to keep it in place, I'd think.

 

[1911Tuner]

Staking the edges of the stop generally works pretty well as long as the dimensional difference between the stop and the slot isn't too great. I haven't staked one since EGW started offering oversized stops. I fit them closely...but not to a hard press-fit...to eliminate the possibility of it falling, and it stabilizes the extractor for more consistent ejection. It also comes with a square bottom that lets me cut a small radius on it, adding a little extra delay on the slide. Win-Win.

Here's evidence of Jim's point on the hammer bounce and impact with the slide. This is a 1918 GI Colt slide from the days when they weren't heat-treated. Pretty common with older pistols with a few miles on'em. I show this one to people who are convinced that the hammer rides the firing pin stop smoothly.

(That's a 1918 Black Army Colt frame with an arched mainspring housing on it. Its since been swapped for an original flat, smooth housing.)

The peening was done with the original 7/32nds radius stop. The stop that you see is one of EGW's that has a small radius. The damage is usually done right at the junction of stop and rail.