1911s hate me

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boofus

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Finally got a chance to go out to the range with my new Delta Elite 10mm. It worked, sorta... It kept jamming up. The slide would blow back but the extractor would loose its grip on the casing and leave it hanging halfway out of the chamber. Then when it goes to chamber the next round it jams up. It did this with CCI Blazer and Winchester Silvertips. The mag is a factory Colt.

I took the slide off and slipped an empty shell under the extractor and it seems to hold it tight. If you shake the slide it won't release the shell but if you flick it with your finger it comes out.

When I cycle it by hand it will extract and eject the shell just fine.

What could be wrong with this gun? After buying a Rock Island 1911A1 lemon and now this Colt that doesn't want to play nice I'm almost ready to swear off the design completely. :(
 
It sounds like an extractor issue. Not the mag.

Somebody is going to get on here and correct me in a minute, but I think the Deltas, were when Colt was using MIM extractors, so there might not be enough tension.

1911Tuner would probably have the fix down on this as I think these extractors will take some tuning, but seems that I remember him advising some cautionary notes on these extractors when tensioning.

If it isn't a cheap fix I would be looking at a Cylinder and Slide extractor as a replacement, ( although I think 1911Tuner also likes the Wilson stuff)
 
Delta Burps

Howdy boofus,

schromf nailed it...It's an extractor problem. I've had my hands on very few Deltas, but the principle is pretty much the same, I'd guess. Good extractors...Good magazines...and good ammo would be the key.

Don't give up on the design...It's sound. Small parts in recent-production guns...especially the extractors...is where many of the problems lie.

Anybody know whether the Big 10s take the same extractor as the .45s...or are they closer to the 9mm/.38 Super design? I ain't gotta clue.
 
Two good extractors and they are caliber specific..

Aftec and Ed Brown, Brownells carries both

Ed Brown
087-130-500
Match Extractor, Series 80, .40 S&W/10mm

Aftec
466-001-040
fits .40 Smith & Wesson 10mm
 
Well my view on modifications to 1911's is JMB was a lot smarter than me on the 1911 design, and I default to his specifcations when in doubt. Which in my mind is a spring steel extractor. Problem is I only know of 1 manufacturer that makes them in 45 only, and no the 45 extractor won't work right on a 10mm.

So your replacement choices are limited. Try reading one of Tuners old posts, he details how to tune one. That is a start. Ed Brown makes a 10mm extractor, and to my knowledge this is the only one available in the 10mm/40. I could be wrong I don't know all of the manufacturers but if you find someone else make sure to post.

The other option is an AFTEC extractor. I have read several positive reviews on these being used on 10mm. And other than cost and extra parts have not heard any negative reviews.

Remember the 10mm is not your granddads 45. It pushed the limits of the 1911 somewhat and is not the best choice to get a bone stock 1911, and expect 100% reliability. Extraction problems tend to be a common theme in Delta's. And I think even between gunsmiths there is some disagreement on what is the best choice on fixes, and I read of sucesses in both camps. That said when a 10mm runs right they are awesome, and defiantely worth the effort to get them to run right.

Mastrogiacomo (initials S.S), is a guru on 10mm's, search some of his threads and you will get a lot better information on this platform, than I can give you. He has a lot of experience on this and has written several good write ups.
 
I ordered the Ed Brown 10mm extractor and 2 more recoil springs from Wolff. A 18.5lb and 20lb. If these new parts don't make it semi-reliable I think I'm gonna just try to trade it for a Sig P220ST or P226ST. Shooting is no fun when every shot is a clearing drill cause of jammed brass.

German made guns have never given me any problems. The American designed guns I've bought recently all were lemons. Rock Island 1911, MAC, Colt Delta, and RRA AR15 were all dogs. :(

Thanks for all the info, we'll see if the new extractor fixes things in a couple days.
 
I have a Delta Elite, bought it used shortly after the second edition came out. When I bought it, I stripped it down and the factory plastic recoil spring guide rod had only a light peening mark where the slide had made impact. I think this is one of those pistols in which one box of ammo was fired and the owner decided it was too much gun. Anyway, I put in a full length guide rod, a shock buffer and a 22 pound recoil spring. I never had any jams of any sort with mine. I am now going to take this pistol to the next level. I have a brand new Bar-Sto barrel and I will also fit an EGW flat bottom firing pin stop.

Maybe the previous owner of your Delta monkeyed with it?

Could it possibly be that you are not keeping a firm and consistant grip on the pistol?

What recoil spring are you using? If the recoil spring is too heavy, the slide will come back, but not quite far enough to eject, but it will strip the next round from the mag and jam it against the fired, but unejected empty.

I prefer a shock buffer in my Delta, but I also installed a slightly extended ejector, this makes up any difference in slide travel distance that the buffer may take up. You might want to try your Delta without the buffer, if it ejects cleanly without the buffer, then an extended ejector or a recoil spring about 2 pounds lighter might be the answer.

When it does eject, how far away from the pistol does the brass land?

Also, can you rotate the extractor in its tunnel? Mine rotates just a tiny bit, much less than most 1911's I see these days. An extractor that rotates will often drop the empty shell under recoil.
 
It came with a stainless steel full length rod. I don't know how heavy the spring is, but it's definitely more than the standard 16lbs. I'm thinking it might be a 23lb spring, so I ordered some lighter ones.

I tried running it without the Shok-buff and it still had the same problems. I'll monkey with the extractor and see if it rotates like you said.
 
Points to Ponder

A few things to bear in mind whenever dealing with a 1911-pattern pistol
in any caliber other than .45 ACP...especially the 10mms.

The working pressure curve of the 10 is outside the parameters of the design. The 10mm pistols were massaged, tweaked, and slightly reengineered in order to accept it. This pressure curve/timing issue
with the Big Ten is pretty close to the limits, if used in full-power loadings.
Velocities attainable with the 10 require powders with a slower burn rate
than the gun was designed around, and allowances had to be made.
This also holds true for many of the plus P loadings in .45 ACP caliber...
which may explain why some 1911s will run fine with such ammo, and other choke on it. I believe that it's at least closely related.

Whenever slow powders are used, the pressure curves hold their peak for a longer period, and if things are just a little out of whack, it puts extra stresses on the extractor...which was designed to pull a case at nearly zero pressure and expansion in the chamber. With the pressures and curves of the .45 ACP round in a correctly timed gun, the extractor is doing very little extracting against resistance...Some 1911s will function surprisingly well with no extractor at all. When the slower powders of the
10mm are in use, all that goes out the window, and the extractor is working harder to extract the fired case. If the unlock timing on the gun is
delayed for as long as possible, these stresses are minimized, but are still higher than with the original cartridge. If the unlock timing is middle-of-the-road in a 10mm pistol, you can almost bet that extractor problems will show up sooner rather than later. This would...IMHO...suggest that 1911-based pistols in 10mm caliber should be carefully hand fitted so as to delay unlock and linkdown timing in order to allow the case enough time to "shrink" down enough to provide as little resistance to extraction as possible. Only by happy coincidence do we get the optimum timing with a production pistol. The pressure curve of the .45 cartridge allows for a little wiggle room
on the timing of the gun without adverse effects. The 10mm doesn't, unless it's loaded with powder burn rates that are compatible with the design. That usually means giving up some of the velocity and energy that
the 10 is noted for, which sorta defeats the purpose for opting for the 10.
I've always suspected that this was at least part of the reason for the
downloading of the cartridge from its original velocity and energy levels.
Not so much because it was hard to handle...and hard on the guns..but to make the 1911s more reliable with the round. Design a gun from the ground up with the 10mm in mind, and it'll likely do a lot better at full-power levels.

Regard it in the same context as the M-14/M-1 Garand...You can use slow powders to make higher velocity levels, but the rifles either won't function, or they won't function for long before something lets go. The powder burn rates and pressure curves in those rifles has to fall within certain paramemters in order for them to function correctly. In other words...the
ammo must be compatible with the design.

Here endeth the lesson...

Luck!
 
You mean having a pony on the side won't automatically make the gun work? :p

I got suckered by the Colt fanatics. :scrutiny:
 
They hate me also. Always find the recoil objectionable and the web of my hand
hurts for days. A .38 SUPER might be ok.

I prefer a P220 or CZ anyhow:)
 
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