Wvladimire
Member
- Joined
- May 13, 2006
- Messages
- 34
I am not expecting any comments for this post. To me it is more of a rant and rave for all the misleading information out there regarding 1911's. And praise to some well made 1911's, as well as some tips when purchasing your first 1911 pistol. Mind you, these are my opinions based on my own experiences, so if I ruffle a few feathers, remember what is said about opinions.
Casting versus forged: This debate has been done over and over again till it's been done to death. I will try to explain what most of the industry considers forged, compared to what we believe forged is.
Forged means that the blank has either been pressed or hammered into a rough shape for machining. To some big name industry makers of 1911's, this means either hammering or pressing a rectangular piece of stock into more of a retangle shape for the slide. And hammering or pressing a square piece of stock into an L shape for the grip frame. This by those big name companies, is their definition as to what a forged slide or frame is. It doesn't matter if this is only a one step process with a press, or two to three hammer strikes, to them this is a forged piece. And technically it's true, no matter how much machining is needed to get the rough shape to look like the final product.
We the consumer think that forged means most of the shape of the final product is made by it's being hammered into submission, with very little machining used to make the final product. My apologies for telling you this and bursting your bubble, but this is known as "hammer forging". And believe me there is a difference. If you think not, then compare the price of a hammer forged barrel compared to one made from a blank, a blank that the industry says is forged. You will see a difference in price, quality, and life of the barrel. Yes "hammer forged" and "forged mean two different things, especially to big business. I'm just letting you the consumer know, that when something says hammer forged and the price is a lot higher, there is a reason for it, compared to just a forged piece.
I go to my fair share of gun shows and visit my share of local gun shops. Over the last two years I have handled many 1911's made by a major american company, which is considered the industry standard for perfection. And I have handled some made by a German company that only recently got into the game of making 1911's. And while these pieces of hardware are well made, pretty, and nice to look at. I have been able to rock the slide, side to side on a fully assembled 1911, made by these companines an 1/8 of an inch or more. To me this is shotty workmanship. And one should expect more for the price they are paying.
Another company who uses investment casting to make their 1911's, I have never been able to do this with. Again to me, I believe the tolerances are tighter on these lower priced 45's, that have proven themselves in the shooting world. Recently one was fired by a well known competition shooter, that put 1,000 rounds through it in 10 mins, with no malfunctions. To me this is impressive. I would like more of the american companies to take this to heart and make a 1911 that can do this. And most importantly improve the design's inherent flaws.
Now some tips on buying your first 1911. Although I love John Browning's design for the 45 ACP, it does have it's flaws. Small parts breakage, weak extractor, and less supported cartridge case than most other semi-auto pistols.
So if you are going to spend big bucks on your 1911, like $1,000 or more, or under $500. Here are some tips to look for for improved function and reliability on your new 1911.
1) Try to go with a design that has improved the extractor. Alot of the American companies just follow the same old design and have not improved it at all. Now to purists out there just saying this is a travesty. But in all honesty, how many times have you guys had to fine tune your extractor? If you've had your 1911 for 5 years or more, I'm willing to bet at least a few times. So my suggestion is to look for a model with a better designed extractor than the original design calls for. External is a better system than an internal extractor. Less hassle with tuning, tension, and all that other non-sense. Or there are some companies that offer a better internal extractor design. An improvement over the original extractor design will lead to less head aches down the road.
2) I would say get a ramped barrel. And while most big companies would lead you to believe that if the barrel is not ramped, then the casing or round is unsupported, and this is not good. To an extent, they are ture, but in all semi-auto pistols, the casing or round is not fully supported, no matter what they try and claim. A ramped barrel will give you more support of the casing than a non-ramped barrel. But there is no such thing as a fully supported case in a 1911. This has to do with static headspace and headspace and more technical jargon that I do not care to get into at this point and time. The ramped barrel will let you shoot more than just hardball ammo. Harball meaning full metal jacket. Ramped barrels have proved to be more reliable when shooting hollow points or self defense ammunition.
3) Make sure the plunger tube is attached to the side of the grip frame SECURELY. Over the past year, I can't tell you how many NEW 1911'S came into my shop to have the plunger tube re-staked. And all of these came from the same factory. While I will not name names here, this company has been around since WWII making 1911's. Please work the thumb safety and make sure it clicks into place nice and sharply. If it does not or you have difficulty taking the thumb safety off of safe. Then you more than likely have a loose plunger tube. And yes while this is an easy fix, it's also a hassle, especially to a new gun owner. Sometimes you can't really tell if the plunger tube is loose until you disassemble the pistol. Meaning more than just field stripping. Something most gun stores frown upon when looking at a new firearms. So please work the thumb safety back and forth at least a couple of times.
4) It doesn't matter if the gun is cast, forged, or made from an exotic hard to find alloy. If the 1911 you fell in love with fits your hand, feels good to you, and has a good point of aim for you. Then buy it and be happy with it. You can add bells and whistles later.
That's about all for now and I hope this helps those tottering on the fence to buying their first 1911.
Thank you for your time.
Casting versus forged: This debate has been done over and over again till it's been done to death. I will try to explain what most of the industry considers forged, compared to what we believe forged is.
Forged means that the blank has either been pressed or hammered into a rough shape for machining. To some big name industry makers of 1911's, this means either hammering or pressing a rectangular piece of stock into more of a retangle shape for the slide. And hammering or pressing a square piece of stock into an L shape for the grip frame. This by those big name companies, is their definition as to what a forged slide or frame is. It doesn't matter if this is only a one step process with a press, or two to three hammer strikes, to them this is a forged piece. And technically it's true, no matter how much machining is needed to get the rough shape to look like the final product.
We the consumer think that forged means most of the shape of the final product is made by it's being hammered into submission, with very little machining used to make the final product. My apologies for telling you this and bursting your bubble, but this is known as "hammer forging". And believe me there is a difference. If you think not, then compare the price of a hammer forged barrel compared to one made from a blank, a blank that the industry says is forged. You will see a difference in price, quality, and life of the barrel. Yes "hammer forged" and "forged mean two different things, especially to big business. I'm just letting you the consumer know, that when something says hammer forged and the price is a lot higher, there is a reason for it, compared to just a forged piece.
I go to my fair share of gun shows and visit my share of local gun shops. Over the last two years I have handled many 1911's made by a major american company, which is considered the industry standard for perfection. And I have handled some made by a German company that only recently got into the game of making 1911's. And while these pieces of hardware are well made, pretty, and nice to look at. I have been able to rock the slide, side to side on a fully assembled 1911, made by these companines an 1/8 of an inch or more. To me this is shotty workmanship. And one should expect more for the price they are paying.
Another company who uses investment casting to make their 1911's, I have never been able to do this with. Again to me, I believe the tolerances are tighter on these lower priced 45's, that have proven themselves in the shooting world. Recently one was fired by a well known competition shooter, that put 1,000 rounds through it in 10 mins, with no malfunctions. To me this is impressive. I would like more of the american companies to take this to heart and make a 1911 that can do this. And most importantly improve the design's inherent flaws.
Now some tips on buying your first 1911. Although I love John Browning's design for the 45 ACP, it does have it's flaws. Small parts breakage, weak extractor, and less supported cartridge case than most other semi-auto pistols.
So if you are going to spend big bucks on your 1911, like $1,000 or more, or under $500. Here are some tips to look for for improved function and reliability on your new 1911.
1) Try to go with a design that has improved the extractor. Alot of the American companies just follow the same old design and have not improved it at all. Now to purists out there just saying this is a travesty. But in all honesty, how many times have you guys had to fine tune your extractor? If you've had your 1911 for 5 years or more, I'm willing to bet at least a few times. So my suggestion is to look for a model with a better designed extractor than the original design calls for. External is a better system than an internal extractor. Less hassle with tuning, tension, and all that other non-sense. Or there are some companies that offer a better internal extractor design. An improvement over the original extractor design will lead to less head aches down the road.
2) I would say get a ramped barrel. And while most big companies would lead you to believe that if the barrel is not ramped, then the casing or round is unsupported, and this is not good. To an extent, they are ture, but in all semi-auto pistols, the casing or round is not fully supported, no matter what they try and claim. A ramped barrel will give you more support of the casing than a non-ramped barrel. But there is no such thing as a fully supported case in a 1911. This has to do with static headspace and headspace and more technical jargon that I do not care to get into at this point and time. The ramped barrel will let you shoot more than just hardball ammo. Harball meaning full metal jacket. Ramped barrels have proved to be more reliable when shooting hollow points or self defense ammunition.
3) Make sure the plunger tube is attached to the side of the grip frame SECURELY. Over the past year, I can't tell you how many NEW 1911'S came into my shop to have the plunger tube re-staked. And all of these came from the same factory. While I will not name names here, this company has been around since WWII making 1911's. Please work the thumb safety and make sure it clicks into place nice and sharply. If it does not or you have difficulty taking the thumb safety off of safe. Then you more than likely have a loose plunger tube. And yes while this is an easy fix, it's also a hassle, especially to a new gun owner. Sometimes you can't really tell if the plunger tube is loose until you disassemble the pistol. Meaning more than just field stripping. Something most gun stores frown upon when looking at a new firearms. So please work the thumb safety back and forth at least a couple of times.
4) It doesn't matter if the gun is cast, forged, or made from an exotic hard to find alloy. If the 1911 you fell in love with fits your hand, feels good to you, and has a good point of aim for you. Then buy it and be happy with it. You can add bells and whistles later.
That's about all for now and I hope this helps those tottering on the fence to buying their first 1911.
Thank you for your time.
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