1911tuner: Do small 1911's work?

[megatronrules]

I ask tuner as I am really considering a micro compact version of my much loved and trusted GI springer,do you have any experiance with this gun tuner? I've heard alot of horror stories about sub 4 inch barreled 1911's but I've also heard/ seen good things to,a friend of mine has an officers acp that runs as well as my full size 1911's for example. As a flip side I've heard/seen alot of bad things about full size guns as well. All that aside I've learned that almost all 1911 malfuntions are shooter induced i.e. home gunsmithing,cheap mags (which can be a problem with any autoloader really),limpwristing,bad ammo and the need for some simple break in time to name a few.

All this being said tuner would you say small 1911's are bad as far as reliability goes? You know alot more than me on this subject which is why I ask but as a side note I have several reliable carry guns so I really don't have much to lose by trying a 3 inch GI springfield,I just wanted some insight from you first. Also given springfield's customer service and based on your reply I might just take the plundge and get one of these. thanks for any help with this tuner and take care.

 

[Josey]

I will tell you this much, my own experiences have been NEGATIVE. I have had two Springfield V10 Ultra 45 ACP models. One was Bi-Toned and had Tritium night sights. Both were unreliable, dysfunctional and the ported model blinded me at night. I cannot say a single positive remark about those two Springfields. A neighbouring jurisdiction airport public safety director has a exact duplicate of my V10 Ultra ported model, his is flawless. I would not suggest going less than 4" on a 1911. Buyer beware. JME

 

[sigma 40ve]

I can only answer about my Para Ord C745. I really like the thing. Accurate, and has been reliable. I bought it used, don't know how many rounds it has fired besides the 650 I have put thru it. It was dirty as hell when I got it. Not mag sensitive either.

 

[WhoKnowsWho]

I have a Para Ordnance C6.45 with a 3" barrel and my experience has been positive with it. It's about due for a new spring though at 700 or so rounds through it. No problems except when using bad mags (the ones that came with my Charles Daly )

 

[critter]

I have a Colt officers model and a kimber compact stainless (almost identical in size) which I carry a lot. Both have been dead cold reliable as in 100%!

I, too, have thought I'd like one of the micro 45's but have heard that the ultra short ones are MUCH harder to get adjusted so that they run 100%. No personal experience.

I will NOT tolerate a carry gun that is not 100% reliable and I must KNOW without a doubt will work when called upon. I may be persuaded to try one of the itty bitty ones some of these days if the right deal comes along.

Good luck if you decide on one.

 

[jerryd]

Have a micro compact got used wont function all the time ,also have a kimber ultra that works 100%, also a colt officers that is also reliable 100%. From all the posts i see kimber is more reliable in the small pistol group than SA, maybe they know a secret that SA doesnt!

 

[aeroscout]

I'd really like to know as well. I've spent the last 6 months deciding what to get and saving up my money. Now I have the money but can't get a good feeling about one compact 1911 over another.

The question is: "take a chance with what is preceived as a more reliable pistol from kimber or go with SA that has better service?

 

[M2 Carbine]

It depends on which small 45.

I have three 3 inch barrel Kimbers and my buddies have about another 7 or 8.

They are all 100 percent.
(I did have an ammo problem with my Ultra Eclipse for a couple hundred rounds when I first got it)

Actually the Kimbers are more reliable than my original GI 1911A1 and 3 other full size 1911s I've owned.
The Kimber will feed anything (at least the many kinds I've tried).

What is really surprising is how accurate these 3 inch Kimbers are.

8x11 inch paper
7 rounds. The hole at 9 o'clock is 2 bullets.
So even counting the flyer that I pulled to the right that little 45 will shoot a 5 inch group at 48 yards.
I'm sure a better shooter could tighten that group an inch or two.

 

[1911Tuner]

Shorties

Howdy megatron,

The long and the short of it...pun intended...is that the short 1911 variants have a spotty reputation on reliability. Some will hit the ground runnin' and never stop...others will drive a body over the edge. The more recent examples are much better than the older versions...most notably the Colt officer's Models.

The problem is...and always has been...slide timing and to a lesser degree, the increased downward angle of the barrel when the pistol is in battery.

The lighter slides and necessarily stronger recoil springs make for a fast-moving cycle, and sometimes other functions just don't move fast enough to keep up, and the magazine timing is on the peg when slide speeds get as high as they are in the pistols that are shorter than Commander length It's often a trial-and-error exercise to find just the right recoil spring rate
and tension.

Too light, and the pistol may not return to battery reliably...Too heavy, and
the slide outruns the magazine when it tries to get a round into feeding position. Since the slide has reduced mass, and less momentum, it needs
the extra push of a strong spring to go to battery, but there's a limit as to
how strong the spring can be and not run into magazine timing problems.

A stronger magazine spring will help, but that exerts more drag on the slide
when the mag is topped off...back to square one. To top it all off, when the
right combination is struck...7 or 8 hundred rounds later...when the spring starts to get tired..it's time to start all over again. Top that off with the
fact that the shorter springs need replacement more often, and you can see what a can of worms some of'em can be.

My practice has always been to set the pistols up to feed as smoothly as possible, with the least amount of drag as the round enters the chamber,
and use as light a spring as possible without danger of frame damage...
usually about 2 pounds below factory accepted "standard' for the model.

On set-ups like this, I also advise topping off the magazine, chambering
the top round, and NOT topping the magazine off again...to keep the
drag on the slide as low as possible for the feeding cycle on the next round.
I do this as a habit even on full-size guns anyway, and for the same reasons....but it's a matter of personal experience and choice. Just
my way of eliminating one more "Murphy" opportunity.

Also, good practice to experiment with diffrent ammo to determine which
brand/type is the most reliable in that particular gun...and sticking with it.
Moreover...even when a different lot of the same, reliable ammo is used,
test it! It varies from lot to lot.

Don't get too wrapped up in one brand of "Super Bullet" just because of
the theoretical stopping power. If it won't feed and go bang, it's not much good to you, no matter what the theories on effectiveness are. My carry ammo of choice is hardball, regardless of the platform or how well it
feeds/functions with the "Killer Hollowpoint" of the month. Reliability has
priority over all other factors. If hardball is placed well, it'll save your bacon.
If shot placement is sloppy...no hollowpoint will likely do much better.
Bullet expansion from those short barrels is a crapshoot anyway...

'Bout all I can tell ya.

Luck!

Tuner

 

[megatronrules]

Thanks tuner I also use only ball ammo in my 1911's which are all fullsize models. Maybe I'll just stick to my colt cobra for a small carry gun when I can't/don't feel like lugging my 1911's,at least I know it works 100% speaking of which I really love this revolver goes nice in a pocket to cause its so light.
I have the same thought as you tuner a gun that won't work 100% is useless for a carry gun that may be called upon to save you life one day. I've never been a fan of hollow points myself for the .45 I mean ball ammo did fine all this time and if you can't get the job done with ball ammo you ain't getting it done with jhp's either thanks for your replies everyone.

 

[cerberus]

3 Inch&4 Inch Kimbers

Have a Ultra Carry II 3" also a Tac Pro II 4" both Kimbers and both have been great right out of the box. I use Wilson Mags.

 

[DMK]

You could always go with a compromise sized gun like the Kimber Compact CDP or the Colt CCO. They have the longer Commander sized slide to sidestep much of the reliability issues, but the short Officer's sized frame so they conceal well. IMO, these are the perfect 1911s for use as a CCW.

 

[Drakejake]

I bought two Para single action .45's about the same time. The full-size P14-45 has never jammed. The compact P12-45 jammed at least once per almost every mag. I put stronger springs into the P12 mags but continued to have jams. I decided the problem was the dirty PMP ammo I have been using in all of my .45s. With cleaner ammo I have had no jams. I think the smaller .45's, including 1911's, have smaller tolerances for proper functioning and are therefore more likely to jam than their bigger cousins.

Drakejake

 

[tex_n_cal]

I do have a Colt Defender, and it is 100% with its preferred choice of ammo(In this case, Federal HS). The worst problem I had was it kept drilling my forehead with spent brass. Sure does get range owners excited when you walk in with a round bleeding hole in the center of your forehead.

I shortened the ejector slightly(about .015), and that cured the problem without harming reliability.

 

[zeke]

Would strongly advise against purchasing any 3 in 45 in without beavertail safty, unless ya like pain.

Have a Defender (first version),Ultra carry (first version) and SA Micro (fiirst milspec version with extended beaver tail and night sights)

The Defender is most reliable 45 ascp semi owned, have not had any malfunctions with the Ultra carry (wilson mags) and it is extremely accurate.

The SA was whole other story. Went purposely looking for 3 incher with steel frame and barrel ramp attached to barrel. When new, pistol would not feed or eject reliably and recoil spring assembly broke at less than 100 rounds. Magazine was junk and pistol shot 10 inches low at 25 yards. SA sent new recoil assembly, still wouldn't function reliably. Chamber was unsually rough and tight.

Polished chamber and feedramp, replaced extractor, used Wilson mags, replaced recoil assembly with Kimber's version (using original plug and Wolff heavy spring). Pistol is approaching reliable, but still has occasional feeding problems with Win Value pack (OAL varies from 1.260-1.275). Is now reliable with shorter rounds. The SA version appears to have a steeper feed ramp angle than Para ordinances, and does not have the lower portion of the front of ejection port cut out like Defender and Ultra. When the Loaded rounds are over 1.260, can not hand eject a loaded round.

Really like the 3 inchers for what they are, wouldn't even consider a mil-spec version of 3 incher.

 

[1911Tuner]

Nit-Pickin'

Quote:

"I wouldn't even consider a mil-spec version of 3 incher."

Nit-Pick Mode On...

Three-inch Mil-Spec is a contradiction in terms...

Nit-Pick Mode Off...

Cheers!

Tuner

 

[Sox]

Go to the 1911 forum on the net, lots of great info. It saved me alot of heartache for I had this same question. My experiences: The Colt Defender was 100% reliable, accurate and comfortable to shoot. Same with the Officers and CCO I owned. I liked the looks and ergonomics of the little SA Micro, but not alot of happy campers over on 1911. Good luck.

 

[Wildalaska]

My Colt Def is 100% reliable with good magazines...ie McCormicks..also as tuner says, no mag top offs!

I have a steel feed ramp in mine...

WildbutidontcarryittoobigAlaska

 

[crucible]

FWIW-my 1991A1 Colt Compact has been utterly reliable, after normal break in occasional FTF's, etc. that any 1911 would have. I purchased it new in 1992/1993 or so, and it's my CCW weapon, so I put my money where my mouth is.

If I could do it over again, I would have purchased a Commander size-the grip on the compact just isn't comfortable for me as my hands are fairly large, and extend below the frame enough to make longer shooting sessions uncomfortable. Peirce grip grooves helped with that alot though, and defensive firing would not be affected.

That said, I'm currently looking for a full-size to compliment it.

Cruc

 

[George Hill]

Two Detonics have been perfectly reliable for me... along with 2 Springfield compacts...
I guess I am lucky.

 

[themic]

played around with someone's kimber 3" at the range one time. thing was more accurate and easier to handle than my 9mm RAP carry. more pleasant to shoot, too.

the owner said it had about 500 rounds and no problems. however, he also stayed away from super ammo and pretty consistently shot cheap federal ball.

i liked it. i liked it alot. i would own one, if it weren't so darned expensive.

 

[zeke]

Wildalaska- was considering the steel feed ramp insert, which is one reason searched fro a steel frame 3 incher. Am still considering it for the Defender and Ultra. Can ya share some details , cost and experience with this alteration?

Thanks


1911Tuner-have learned considerable from your experience and willingness to post. Your right about a 3 incher not truly being "Milspec" , but believe that is what SA calls em, and what the poster was inquiring about. SA appears to have multiple versions of the 3 incher. Have had several previous versions of SA 45 acp's, and was pleased with all of em.


Concerning the SA 3 incher previously described, also had to replace the slide stop.

 

[Wildalaska]

Wildalaska- was considering the steel feed ramp insert, which is one reason searched fro a steel frame 3 incher. Am still considering it for the Defender and Ultra. Can ya share some details , cost and experience with this alteration?

Mine has been flawless and it was the first one we ever did (hey lets experiment on MY pistol)..

We used the EGW ramp which works fine, now we use round steel stock that we mill down once inside the frame to be more esthetically pleasing...we charge $199..

You will need a refinish after...

WildstalinAlaska

 

[Maxer51tx]

In addition to reliability, you might want to give some thought to effectiveness, as well.

The shorter barrel reduces velocity. This means some JHPs that may be adequate for a Commander or GM don't do so well out of the shorty. Apparently there are rounds that are adequate for a Defender-size 1911, however, it's a smaller universe to choose from.

Check out the terminal effects board at the TacticaForums.com, or ammolab.com (do a search) for info -- expert, scientific based on ballistics and autopsies.

Good luck.

 

[roo_ster]

1911Tuner: What about 3" 9mm 1911s?

Howdy:

The 1st 1911 in the family was my wife's SA Ultra Compact in 9mm (alum frame). Reliable, so far, with the exception of the slide not staying locked on the last round. A local 'smith bent the mags a bit & the slide would stay open after that. It came with Chip McCormick mags, the ones with the spacer in the back.

How reliable are the 3" 9mm 1911s, in your experience? Are the forces more/less forgivng, in your estimation? (I know the 9mm produces less recoil, but that is not the whole picture.) She has a couple thousand rounds through it & I wonder if we'll have to swap out springs soon?

Also, the thumb safety is not as positive as my SW1911. A little "spongy," as in if force is applied to it when it is off, it will move down & spring back. She has a high grip and rides the thumb safety when firing, as do I.

Thanks for taking the time (for my & other people's questions).

[BTW, I would likely never have bought a 1911-style pistol, were it not for my wife. I had her try out everything when she started shooting. Nothing worked for her...until we rented a 1911. "It fits my hand, I can reach the trigger, and I can shoot well with it," she said. She may not have grown up with firearms as I did, but she has a good bit of sense.]