1941 Colt DS

[FPrice]

I am not normally a Colt revolver fan, but I do like older guns. My regular dealer had a very nicely maintained, older Colt Detective Special on his wall today. Came from a friend of ours who is getting up there in years. I figured something was different about it when I saw on the left side of the barrel, above the nornal writing, ".38 SPL CTG", but every other letter/digit was offset half a line up/down. Turns out it started life with a 4" barrel but was cut down to 2", supposedly under the influence of Chic Gaylord.

I guessed it was from the late 40's but a check of R. L. Wilson's book puts it in 1941 or possibly 42. The condition is pretty good, the action still tight, although the barrel cut is very very slightly rough. Not badly, but you can tell.

The guy wants $450 but I think this is primarily for the memories it has for him (he is a former Colt employee). If I can get him down to $300 I might go for it.

Any other older Colt DS owners out there who would like to chime in?

 

[Old Fuff]

I knew Chic slightly, and learned a lot about holster making from him. He was indeed a strong advocate of Colt revolvers over "that other brand," but I think if he had wanted a Police Positive Special made into a snubby, he would have returned the revolver to Colt and had the correct length of ejector rod fitted along with having it rebarreled. On the other hand if it had come into his shop and was available for the right price he would have likely done the same as I (we?) would do under similar circumstances. However I would want some conformation concerning the Gaylord story, and also look closely at how well the front sight was fitted to the sawed-off barrel.

Be that as it may, by 1942 Uncle Sam was getting most if not all of the available Colt handguns, including Detective Specials. The NY city cops were suffering frm a shortage of snubbies, and a fair number of longer barreled revolvers got cut down. If (big "if") the revolver you are looking at has a New York City background, and dates from the beginning of the war, you may be seeing one of those historically interesting wartime cutoff's. But I would ask for some evidence ...

 

[scubie02]

so this is supposedly a DS that they cut down a barrel from something else and stuck it on there? If it were a regular ds that would be a reasonable price. I just sold a 1933 I had for $700.

 

[FPrice]

Old Fuff...

I did not mean to intimate that Gaylord had anything to do with this particular pistol. Just that the barrel chop was done based upon his thoughts on short-barreled revolvers. Or something to that effect. The guy selling it is a friend of mine. I'll ask him some deeper questions based upon your suggestions.

Thanks.

My biggest problem is that I have my eye on about three older guns right now. An early 1930's Winchester Model 1906 pump 22 (rear sight is kind of buggered up tho), a 1950 K38 Combat Masterpiece (going to see it tomorrow - taking a Clark-customized Ruger 10/22 as possible trading material), and the DS.

Sigh.

 

[Majic]

You do know that Dick Special is really a PPS. Since it started life as a 4 incher then it's a PPS. The Dick Special only came in 2 and 3 inch barrels.

 

[scubie02]

I believe that year DS only came in 2"

 

[FPrice]

I went back (several times!) and checked this out more closely. On the left side of the barrel it says:

38 Detective
Special

with the 38 as big as both lines of the letters. Looks like factory markings to me. The D and the S are lined up vertically, I can't seem to do the same in my post. Above this is the writing that looks added on.

The right side of the barrel has some very small Colt markings, look like patent dates, etc.

The barrel measures about 1 7/8" to 1 15/16" long. Overall its in good mechanical shape and the finish is relateively nice. Still have to talk to the owner and see what he can add to this.

 

[dfariswheel]

You have a pre-war Detective Special with the old-style barrel markings Colt used in those days.

All double action revolvers were barrel-marked with the caliber in large letters, and the model in smaller letters in a double line.

This would look something like:

38Detective
......Special.

Later in the 40's, this was changed to all the letters in the same size and on one line.

So, you don't have a cut-down barrel, you have a factory Detective Special.

 

[FPrice]

Here's a pic I was able to take today.

 

[scubie02]

yep, thats a square butt 1st version of first issue that was supposed to have only been made until 1933--sure you have the date right? Thats the same style that I just sold for $700--book value was $879.

 

[FPrice]

scubie02...

Serial number is 474xxx. Wilson's book puts that at 1941. I wonder if Colt stocked parts like S&W did and this was a 30's frame assembled in 1941?

 

[Old Fuff]

Colt did indeed stock a lot of parts before the war in an effort to keep their work force intact. A lot of "Detective Special" revolvers were made during the war using Police Positive Special (square butt) frames with Detective Special barrels.

Remember for us, the war started just 3 weeks short of the END of 1941

The U.S. military forces purchased approximately 6000 "Detective Special" revolvers during World War Two, and most if not all had the square butt.

Serial numbers remain a question, but the last one, No. 464777, was shipped on Nov. 18, 1944 - but it was a replacement for one previously lost.

One known example, serial no. 473033 was shipped in 1944.

Gen. Eisenhower was issued serial no. 477503, again in 1944.

Detective Special revolvers were serial numbered in the same series as the Police Positive Special model at this time, and had reached 476000 (more or less) at the beginning of World War Two, but Colt was assembling guns for the most part using parts on hand.

Last but not least, only Colt knows for sure who this gun was shipped to, and it it quite possible it ended up with a police department, such as NYCPD.

 

[scubie02]

what's trhe difference between the police positive square butt frame and the ds square but frames?

 

[Majic]

what's trhe difference between the police positive square butt frame and the ds square but frames?

Nothing. The only difference in the 2 revolvers was the barrel.

 

[FPrice]

Well, I went back tonight and it was gone!

The guy who was selling it got mad at his wife and decided not to sell any of his guns. Next time I see him I'll make him an offer and see what he says.

 

[Old Fuff]

Oh ..... DARN!!

 

[scubie02]

nowadays it seems like if you see something you may be interested in, you better snap it up, otherwise they always seems to be gone when you go back to get it...good luck tracjing the guy down

 

[FPrice]

good luck tracjing the guy down

No problem. He's a friend and a regular at our shop.

 

[Old Fuff]

I wish you luck, but be careful he doesn't throw his wife into the deal ...