1961 Winchester Model 12

[Jason Thurber]

Hi there,
New to the forum. I was wondering if anyone might be able to help me out in determining if my gun is what I believe it to be by posting a pic of an all original 1961 winchester model 12 12 guage.I ran the serial numbers on oldguns. net and it came back a 1961, but in some of the photos that I have seen of '60's or '62's (can't find one online of a '61), that stock looks a little different. If anyone of you own and could take a picture of an original to post and share with me, I would be greatly appreciative, or if you could find one on the internet that I have simply been unable t find, I would appreciate it very much.
Thanks,
- Jason

 

[MMCSRET]

I don't know how to post pictures, or own a camera. I do however own two Winchester Model 12 shotguns. One is a 12 ga. featherweight, only made for four years; 59-62, and a 16 ga. with a straight grip butt stock, sometimes referred to as "English Style", modified choke. Model 12 Winchesters were made in many different configurations and many different price grades.
Oh! and welcome to THR!!!!!!!

 

[rcmodel]

Go here for many nice photo's of many nice Model 12's.

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...rchyId=11929&cm_re=gl*left*winchestershotguns

rc

 

[Jason Thurber]

Here's a pic of my gun. The serial # is 1897038. On oldguns.net, it comes back as a '61. I can not find a photo of another '61, but I have looked at a photos of what I believe to be a '60 and a '62 and the stocks don't appear to be the same. The grain/stain matches perfectly and I couldn't imagine it being an aftermarket stock, but if someone could confirm one way or the other, I wouls really appreciate it. Also, is there any difference at all between the model that I own and what is referred to as the riot gun (carried by law enforcement officers)?

 

[rcmodel]

The only difference is, your barrel is longer & it has a choke.

A real Riot Gun would have a 20" CYL bore barrel.
And it would say "Riot Gun" on the barrel.

Your forend wood looks right.
The stock with white-line spacers on the grip cap & recoil pad are suspect.

A Model 12 would not have had white spacers, and a Field grade would not have had a recoil pad.

rc

 

[Jim K]

The butt stock looks like the original, but I think it looks different because it was cut down, possibly for a boy or a woman. The recoil pad is not only not factory, but doesn't look very well done. Whoever cut the stock and installed the recoil pad probably did the grip cap to match.

Jim

 

[Jason Thurber]

How can you tell whether or not the stock has been cut down. It doesn't feel like it to me personally and when comparing it to others, it doesn't appear to be any shorter. It just appears to have the recoil pad and grip cap added. Do they have to be cut down to have these added? If so, where can an original unaltered stock be purchased?

 

[rcmodel]

I believe the factory stock had a length of pull of about 14". Maybe 13 7/8"?

Measure from the curve of the trigger to the back of the stock.

Normally, when a recoil pad is installed, the stock is cut off an amount equal to the thickness of the pad so the length of pull remains the same with the pad added.

You will find that an orginial pre-64 Model 12 stock in VG condition will cost a bunch of money!

http://www.bedlans.com/stocks_&_forearms.htm#WINCHESTER ORIGINAL PRE-1964 MODEL 12 STOCKS

They do show up on eBay from time to time.

rc

 

[Jason Thurber]

I took it to our local gunsmith and he said that it is a stock buttstock and cap and that that it is referred to as a"trap or skeet" buttstock. I don't know. I am finding that these old guns are like the older guitars. There's just too much speculation and I don't know what to believe. I do appreciate everybodies input, because within it, you can usually find the truth. Anyone else own one with this same stock? Any other pictures spotted on the internet?
Thanks,
- jason

 

[rcmodel]

I think your gunsmith is mistaken.
If it was in fact a Trap or Skeet stock, it would have very nice figure in the wood, and very nice checkering to go along with it.
Yours is plain wood with no checkering.

And a white line spacer on the grip cap Winchester never put on a Model 12 shotgun of any grade.

They did use Winchester marked red rubber butt pads with a white line spacer towards the very end on Skeet grade guns.
But that gun ain't one of them, and that ain't Skeet grade wood.

Very late Field grade:
http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/admin/product_details.php?itemID=32961

Very late Trap grade (Skeet grade would look about the same):
http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/admin/product_details.php?itemID=28758

rc

 

[Jim K]

I put on plenty of recoil pads and sometimes they were put on as an easy way to extend the pull (just put in place of the buttplate). But in general rcmodel is right, the stock was cut off the thickness of the recoil pad and that is what I think I see. Of course, measurement by eyeball in a picture is not an exact science, so I was giving my impression, not a factual certainty.

Jim

 

[jim in Anchorage]

Thank god that white spacer craze went away. Along with Monte Carlo's, skip line checkering, 45 degree forend tip's and ultra glossy stock/metel finish's. Was taste really so poor in the 50's,60's, and 70's? Sorry, way off post.

 

[Jason Thurber]

What is the standard length of the stocks of these guns, measured from end to end, down the center of the buttstock and what 'style' is appropriate fort 1961. I apologize for all the questions, but I do appreciate the answers.
- Jason

 

[rcmodel]

I believe I answered that question, best I could, in post #8.

rc

 

[Jason Thurber]

Would someone be so kind as to measure the length of the stock on there pre-64 model 12. Not from the trigger assembly, but from the end to the end of the stock. I have been told that mine is only measuring 12" because it isn't connected to the receive, allowing me to measure it for the pistol to the end of the butt. I would really appreciate it as I would hate to spend money on a new one when mine is in fact the proper length. So, could everyone post the lenght of their m12 stocks.
Thanks, Jason

 

[Jason Thurber]

I think the stocks correct. It matched the one at the gunsmiths and he said that he didn't believe that it had been cut. Anyway, I am wanting to get a new one, as well as a forend to refurbish and have listed the set on ebay. I would like a more aged factory finish on mine. Anyway, if you bid, please be kind. I already spent quite a bit on this gun and don't want to have to spend too much more to build it the way I want it.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...49608&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT#ht_500wt_1182