1991 Colt made M4?

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PokeyOkie

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I am not too familiar with ARs but I've been offered a 1991 Colt manufactured M4 for $2,300 that is NIB in trade. I haven't seen it yet but that seems very high. What I can find on Google says the M4 didn't really start until 1999.

Can some of you experts educate me?

Carl
 
I sincerely doubt it is a Colt M4 as the M4 is a selective fire weapon (semi & 3-round burst) and being manufactured post 1986 is illegal for a civilian to own. What it more likely is one of the M4 "clones" (AR-15 Carbine, SP6920, etc.), that is the semi-auto version with a 16" barrel.
 
He may be mistakenly calling his 16" carbine an M4 due to the marketing of various AR manufacturers. In which case, it may be worth that much, to someone, depending on how its configured.
 
What is the model number on it? I doubt it is anything close to an M4 copy. More likely it is just an older Colt AR15 carbine version.
 
He is advertising it as pre-ban. I don't have pictures yet so beyond M4, I'm not sure about it. I'm new to the plastic gun era so this is a learning experience. I really appreciate all the help!
 
He is advertising it as pre-ban. I don't have pictures yet so beyond M4, I'm not sure about it. I'm new to the plastic gun era so this is a learning experience. I really appreciate all the help!
I'm an AR guy. As for when the army adopted the M4, I'm not sure. I got to Benning in spring of '01, and 9/11 happened DURING my infantry graduation inspection and we marched the field the next day or after. Then we got put on guard details.

If the M4 came out in '99, the ones that 3rd ID were issued were pretty beat up by fall of '01 when I saw 'em, and they hadn't been anywhere yet. They could have been ranger unit hand me downs though.

When I got to my unit, which was reactivated, we had no weapons, we had to order them, so we got all brand new semi/burst M4's in the box with a carry handle/rear sight, a sling, a yellow blank adapter, and one magazine. And an invoice that said they cost about $600.

In the Infantry Museum, they had a LOT of experimental weapons. The OICW's from the late 60's were the coolest --long brass rounds that fired three darts instead of a bullet, and had semi auto grenade launchers underneath. Some were mammoth.

Then there was the ACR program rifles. One was a really cool all rubber covered rifle that looked a lot like the toy rifle that came with GI Joes in the early 80's. Another was an early model M4. It looked just like the M4 of today, but the handguard looked a lot like a SAW handguard. That obviously changed, but everything else looked the same. I'll bet SF and maybe ranger units had M4's kind of early on, but they might not have been called "M4" at that point. Catch my drift? Those M4 barrels have been around longer than the designation has, since the 80's at least. Chances you have one of these on your hands is slim to none.

BUT. You have a rifle marketed as a pre-ban, and I do believe there are states that kept the AWB. To those places, that rifle might be worth it. But most likely what you have is an M4 upper and collapsible stock put on an older lower. Perhaps still worth it to these folks. If I had a preban, I'd sell it. If I ever get an FFL and a business started, I'll be hunting these junkers at gunshows --they go for less here when you find 'em. They have more wear and tear, but still worth a fortune to ban states.

Anyone know what states those are?

Finally, unless you live in one of those places, pass this up. If you have $2300 and want a military grade or better AR, I'd look real hard at those Noveske rifles or maybe an LMT. For the price, you can probably get either that nice Noveske with the Afghan barrel and maybe a reflex sight, or an LMT SOPMOD M4 with a reflex sight, 2 stage trigger and a KAC rail, 16" or 14.5" and blind pinned, and that would be BETTER than what the army gets. I have an LMT M4 upper, 14.5" with a blind pinned AAC Brakeout suppressor mount and it's the bees knees, better than the Colt stuff we got in the army to be honest. But LMT will let cosmetic flaws through, presumably to keep costs down, so if that is a concern make sure to buy it sight seen. Noveske will reject a lower with a light roll mark or slightly off center, and sell those as factory seconds, but I assume they junk ones with machining cosmetic flaws. That has to be expensive. Their Afghan barrel is the toughest out there --they use SAW blanks that are double chromed. Having been a SAW gunner for awhile, I say those barrels are TOUGH. The LMT chromed barrel is pretty tough too.

But AR's come in all flavors for all uses, if you want something more accurate or for NM or for 3gun, get something else entirely. My recommendations above, the LMT or Noveske, is based on my experience shooting and building these things for years, and the $2300 price point and assumption of a want for a military grade rifle of course. There are other quality mil grade AR's too, like the Knight's Armament (I use their handguards on just about every AR, the FF ones are very nice and the panels fit better and feel better to me) and LaRue if they are still around.

Give Rainier Arms a look. I got my LMT upper from them, and they only deal in AR's and don't sell junk, so you can't really go wrong. They'll help you out too if you want to build it, and they'll put it together for you so you won't have to buy all that gear and invest that time into building it right --which you want to avoid being a first timer.

If you got that Noveske, I'd be jealous, and I have some slick gear.
 
Way overpriced, suspiciously 'advertised'. Colt 6920's with LE marking have M4 written on the box label. Don't know if the SP 6920 is marked on the box as such.

I don't recall Colt offering an M-4 marked rifle before the 6920 though I DID see a carbine marked Colt and A4 during the ban. Could be one of those--very few of those were available for sale. (One I saw did not have the barrel step down.)
 
Thank you again for the information. I wished I had $2300 to spare and it don't want to get shorted giving that much in trade for it. I will definitely pass on this one. If I really get the urge to own one, I'd be more inclined to build it myself. It looks easy enough.

Carl
 
Another was an early model M4. It looked just like the M4 of today, but the handguard looked a lot like a SAW handguard. That obviously changed, but everything else looked the same. I'll bet SF and maybe ranger units had M4's kind of early on, but they might not have been called "M4" at that point. Catch my drift? Those M4 barrels have been around longer than the designation has, since the 80's at least.

Short barreled, collapsible stock M-16 variants have been around since the 1960's and have known by multiple model designations: CAR-15, XM177 and Commando among others. The forerunner to today's M4 was the 1970's M-16A1 Carbine. It featured a 14.5" barrel and standard birdcage flash suppressor (earlier models had 10"-11.5" barrels and special flash suppressors).
 
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The first M4 I saw was in the winter of 1994/1995 in Okinawa. Some Army SF team (nice guys) were using our jungle warfare center for training and stopped by our basecamp: it stuck out like a sore thumb in the sea of M16A2s.

This makes it Post-1994 ban. Colt was not then as friendly as it is nowdays in regards to tacticool ARs.

The claim that it is a 1991 era M4 is nonsense.
 
This is right off Colt's PDF catalog: Pg 32


THE COLT M4 Carbine was introduced in 1993 and is the weapon of choice required by today’s law enforcement needs for rapid deployment capability, mobility and increased firepower. The Colt M4 Carbine is designed for use wherever light weight, speed of action, mobility and firepower are required. Colt was awarded a sole source contract to supply nearly 19,000 of its new M4 carbines to the U.S. Army and to joint Special Forces personnel.


Clearly the 1991 claim is false.
 
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Gentlemen, relax. It was established way back in post #5 that this is not actually an M4, but rather that the OP and the seller are generically using the moniker M4 to refer to a civilian, semi-auto, collapsible stock AR carbine which have been around long before 1991.
 
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