2 Things I WANT to Know about the Virginia Tech Massacre

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Hi-cap mags make no difference in this scenario based on reports so far. He had several mags, and plenty of time to reload. The SOB was executing people, not "spray-and-pray" or "accuracy through volume." 61 people were shot, and I am anxiously waiting to hear that even 1 of them tried to fight back.
 
Beatnik:
Not really. The RT list was by town/county. As VT takes people from all over the commonwealth (and out of state as well) it wouldn't do much good without hours of research.
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Maybe 2hrs tops. Facebook.com's a social networking site for college students, get a VT-attending THR member to check the hometowns (its listed on your facebook profile) of those deceased and you've got a short list of VA residents to check against the CCW list. It'll even list their birthdays, so you can figure out who was over/under 21.

Kharn
 
I read earlier that one student survived by playing dead.

I don't know if anyone fought back, but we have to get the idea through peoples' heads: You cannot trust your health and well-being to a maniac. You have to assume that he is there to kill you, not hold you hostage or rob you. You always have to assume the worst in these situations. So, fight back with anything and everything you have, because it may be your only chance.
 
www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/wb/xp-50658

January 31, 2006

Gun bill gets shot down by panel
HB 1572, which would have allowed handguns on college campuses, died in subcommittee.
By Greg Esposito
381-1675

A bill that would have given college students and employees the right to carry handguns on campus died with nary a shot being fired in the General Assembly.

House Bill 1572 didn't get through the House Committee on Militia, Police and Public Safety. It died Monday in the subcommittee stage, the first of several hurdles bills must overcome before becoming laws.

The bill was proposed by Del. Todd Gilbert, R-Shenandoah County, on behalf of the Virginia Citizens Defense League. Gilbert was unavailable Monday and spokesman Gary Frink would not comment on the bill's defeat other than to say the issue was dead for this General Assembly session.

Virginia Tech spokesman Larry Hincker was happy to hear the bill was defeated. "I'm sure the university community is appreciative of the General Assembly's actions because this will help parents, students, faculty and visitors feel safe on our campus."

Del. Dave Nutter, R-Christiansburg, would not comment Monday because he was not part of the subcommittee that discussed the bill.

Most universities in Virginia require students and employees, other than police, to check their guns with police or campus security upon entering campus. The legislation was designed to prohibit public universities from making "rules or regulations limiting or abridging the ability of a student who possesses a valid concealed handgun permit ... from lawfully carrying a concealed handgun."

The legislation allowed for exceptions for participants in athletic events, storage of guns in residence halls and military training programs.

Last spring a Virginia Tech student was disciplined for bringing a handgun to class, despite having a concealed handgun permit. Some gun owners questioned the university's authority, while the Virginia Association of Chiefs of Police came out against the presence of guns on campus.

In June, Tech's governing board approved a violence prevention policy reiterating its ban on students or employees carrying guns and prohibiting visitors from bringing them into campus facilities.
 
Last spring a Virginia Tech student was disciplined for bringing a handgun to class, despite having a concealed handgun permit. Some gun owners questioned the university's authority, while the Virginia Association of Chiefs of Police came out against the presence of guns on campus.
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http://www.roanoke.com/news/nrv/wb/xp-21770
"I think it's fair to say that we believe guns don't belong in the classroom," Hincker said. "In an academic environment, we believe you should be free from fear."
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We all ought to contact Larry Hincker and ask if he stands behind his efforts to prevent legal ccw on campus, and whether the campus is really "free from fear."

Here's the freep thread (started today) on the above (Jan '06) article:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1818224/posts
 
As for the 2-hour thing, the media is now speculating that the events may not be connected at all.

I hate waiting on details.....
 
The media are not the only ones who are speculating about that. I've been thinking about it ever since the first reports. Was there only one shooter and, if so, why did he wait two hours to strike again? Did the police cancel the first lockdown because they had reason to believe they had the shooter involved in the dorm shootings? Was it a carefully orchestrated plan or just two individuals who happen to decide to hit at almost the same time?

I have a feeling things are not what they appear to be. The "experts" are all warning about terrorists using WMD. Personally I think an even better terrorist weapon would be simple random acts of extreme violence perpetrated by those who are willing to take their own life afterwards so they could not be questioned.
 
ABC News is reporting that the shooter had two guns, a .22 and a 9mm, at least one of which had the serial number removed according to an atf source.

I.C.
 
VT, not the state, prohibits guns on campus. The Judge on Fox speculates lawsuits may be filed against the school for denying people the right to defend themselves.
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As much as I hate to be a vulture in the midst of this tragedy that could actually help us immensly and hopefully set a precident that echoes throughout the halls of all educational institutions.
 
With all the draconian gun control proposals that are sure to follow this incident, I am glad that I have.....

1) enough components to load 3000 rounds of 40 S&W ammo
2) have at least 1000 rounds for every caliber that I own
3) have all of the guns that I want, at least for the near future.

I began stockpiling 6 months ago, just in case something like this happened. Good call.:D
 
My condolences to the families, and my heart's with them. I don't want anyone to think I'm trashing the students, because I'm not. This is a comment on the society our country is creating. IF some students were taken out execution style, why didn't they bum-rush him? I think Flight 93 proved that many people are capable of dealing with a small force, and I had hoped that maybe that sunk in. I understand these were mostly young kids, but honestly...A guy comes in and starts executing people, and the kids (likely)do nothing? I know it's not tacticly sound to try to rush a gunman, but if he's likely to kill you anyway, you might as well try. One in Ten chance is better than awaiting slaughter. We need to start teaching that there are no hostages anymore, only victims. I'm interested to hear the report of the incident, but I wish we as a nation would start fighting back against this stuff, and start teaching our youth that they are in control of their lives, and they can't trust anyone else to save it for them. Armed teachers is one way to help secure schools. I know people here hate having a permit required, but maybe if a student took a certified training course, they could be allowed to carry concealed. This no defensive weapon crap has got to stop.
 
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ABC News is reporting that the shooter had two guns, a .22 and a 9mm, at least one of which had the serial number removed according to an atf source.
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I just heard on Dateline NBC the same on the type of guns used. Also they said "both guns had the serial numbers filed off".

Also heard on the radio this afternoon that even the campus police were prohibited from carrying weapons (on a regular daily basis). Don't know how much truth their is to that.
 
Well, needless to say, I will be ignoring my campus' ban on carrying concealed. I am curious however, how campus regulations would determine the legality of a self defense shooting. From what I've read, I don't think that would have an impact, but I'm no lawyer. All in all, I think that CCL holders need to be trusted just a little bit more by society. I hate news like this, it makes us all look bad. :banghead:
 
Even having a .22 Mini-revolver would be better than being a mere sheep penned up for the slaughter.
 
No guns on campus?

I keep reading where people say there are no guns allowed on campus.

Silly people.

Of course guns are allowed on campus.

All you need is the right exemption.

This guy had the "bad guy" exemption. With this exemption you're allowed to carry anything you want and go anywhere you please.
 
IF some students were taken out execution style, why didn't they bum-rush him? ...This no defensive weapon crap has got to stop.
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You're kidding me right?! You can't seriously expect that. The people on Flight 93 you referenced knew without a doubt they were going to die if they did nothing; people this madman was shooting might not have realized that. Very few people will throw themselves in front of a bullet if they believe they even have a 0.1% chance if they just lay low or run. But folks pointing out that professors and students who might otherwise have been able to stop this were disarmed is not crap. It's the truth. Certainly the madman did not follow Virginia Tech's rule; look where following it got all the law abiding citizens--they were prevented from having the means to put up a good fight. It's a simple concept. One or two law abiding citizens carrying would have evened the odds a bit. I for one also firmly believe that even the Columbine tragedy could have been prevented by 1 or 2 teachers with CCW.
 
Why didn't they rush him?

You can't seriously expect that. The people on Flight 93 you referenced knew without a doubt they were going to die if they did nothing; people this madman was shooting might not have realized that.
. . .
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That's possible.

However, it is not entirely unreasonable to imagine that a prospective victim might grasp that his tormentor isn't going to cut him any slack -- given that we all remember 9/11 and Flight 93 -- and elect to act accordingly.

In fact, given the events of the last 5 1/2 years, I'm not sure how it's at all rational to assume that inaction can save you.

I can see how the carpet bombing of indoctrination to be non-violent and a good pacifist could lead to this kind of thing. It's harder for me to believe that EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM would be stricken by the same paralysis.

That they didn't even try (given current data) is beyond sad.
 
Things I'd like to know; was the shooter on or ever been on prescription psychotropic drugs, under any psychiactric care. His entire work history - all his "friends" and associates, personal and professional, including those outside his usual circle of family and friends - and all their associates and work histories.

------------------------------

http://ussliberty.org
httrp://ssunitedstates.org
 
"That they didn't even try (given current data) is beyond sad."

It is sad, but it's also human nature; in a group without a charismatic leader, we just tend to do what the group is doing. Especially when in a stressful situation. We're a lot more like sheep than we like to believe.
 
My condolences go out to the family and friends of of victims as well as to the witnesses who will struggle with later phsyc. problems. Having said that I think it is sadly impressive to have done as much damage as this guy did with a 9mm and a .22. It seems to me that he must have had quite a bit of training. Considering the amount of victims of gun violence that live (don't know the exact statistics) I have to say that to have a 1 out of 3 death rate is pretty damn high. I think the amount of people wounded was 61 and the death toll was 31.
As a side note, two days ago was an international Holocaust Memorial day. I wonder if there was any connection. Like say a neo-Nazi or skin head of some sort? Not trying to turn everything into a racial issue and I very much doubt if there was a connection. Just a thought.
 
Colorado Fatboy:
Also heard on the radio this afternoon that even the campus police were prohibited from carrying weapons (on a regular daily basis). Don't know how much truth their is to that.
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On a related note, when I was at U of Delaware (00-04), there was a giant debate on campus about the cops having firearms. They walked around with empty holsters, with a pistol stored in an electronic [AlGore]"lockbox"[/AlGore] in each patrol car. They would call dispatch to get the code to unlock the "lockbox" if the weapon was needed. :scrutiny:

Kharn
 
They walked around with empty holsters, with a pistol stored in an electronic [AlGore]"lockbox"[/AlGore] in each patrol car. They would call dispatch to get the code to unlock the "lockbox" if the weapon was needed.
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That's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. (read)
 
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