20 arrested for illeagally buy hundreds of AK-47's
- Thread starter GambJoe
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okay, so I'm missing something here! whats wrong with buying 20 ak's in one purchase? Our constitution gives us the right to stock munitions against anyone that threatens our sovereignty, foreign or domestic. maybe someone wants 20 battle rifles 500 mags and two pallets of ammo, just in case he needs to defends himself. sounds reasonable to me
Liberal sare using you guys against yourself. all I've heard since tucson is "someone should never have let him buy a gun" and "20 guns at once that dealer is crooked". But none of this was against the law. we live in a free country. with freedom comes threats of violence. Even "we" who understand the need to be responsible for our own safety start seeking legislation to be preventative. It is thin ice people! these people are bad and crazy. but they didn't break the law till they committed the crime. the crime wasn't buying 20 ak's and it wasn't loughner buying the glock. the crime was smuggling, and murder. and it isn't preventable unless your ready to hand over all freedom to the government. people need to stop walking the streets helpless and defenseless and being victims. there should have been security in AZ for congress on the corner. that creep should have been shot the second his gun was fired, or used in a threatening manner. everyone wants to believe we live in a civilized society, the problems is that no one told the uncivilized
Liberal sare using you guys against yourself. all I've heard since tucson is "someone should never have let him buy a gun" and "20 guns at once that dealer is crooked". But none of this was against the law. we live in a free country. with freedom comes threats of violence. Even "we" who understand the need to be responsible for our own safety start seeking legislation to be preventative. It is thin ice people! these people are bad and crazy. but they didn't break the law till they committed the crime. the crime wasn't buying 20 ak's and it wasn't loughner buying the glock. the crime was smuggling, and murder. and it isn't preventable unless your ready to hand over all freedom to the government. people need to stop walking the streets helpless and defenseless and being victims. there should have been security in AZ for congress on the corner. that creep should have been shot the second his gun was fired, or used in a threatening manner. everyone wants to believe we live in a civilized society, the problems is that no one told the uncivilized
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rfwobbly
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No, it's definitely right below aliens helping Bill Clinton win the 1996 election.
FIVETWOSEVEN
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I thought the weapons of choice for the cartels was the M16.
I thought that the AK rifles that are Semi automatic are only missing a hole or holes and the full auto parts.
I thought that the AK rifles that are Semi automatic are only missing a hole or holes and the full auto parts.
Rather than stick our heads in the sand and act like it doesn't happen? How about some sensible solutions to this menace? I mean sensible without infringing on 2A rights. For sure something is clearly going on even if you want to posit that maybe there is exaggeration and fudging of facts. 
Patriot1/3
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I call BS. This was a sting (set-up). Just paving the way for libs to tighten the noose.
merlinfire
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Hah, I didn't know that.
GambJoe
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Where does it say that?
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
Geckgo
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not saying the guy should be stopped from buying 20 AKs, a pallet of ammunition, or an arsenal of RPGs (with the tax stamps, of course ) But it would give the buero people something to do to drop in on the guy and verify whether this was a trigger happy gun nut that wanted an arsenal of AKs, or whether he had a single gun in his house when they stopped by. If they dropped in and there were no guns, say a week after the purchase, then something is fishy. As someone said, uphold the laws we have and one of those laws is against straw purchases.
) But it would give the buero people something to do to drop in on the guy and verify whether this was a trigger happy gun nut that wanted an arsenal of AKs, or whether he had a single gun in his house when they stopped by. If they dropped in and there were no guns, say a week after the purchase, then something is fishy. As someone said, uphold the laws we have and one of those laws is against straw purchases.all I was commenting on was the previous posters who made a blanket judgement for selling 20 ak's in a sale.. IMO I think the last thing we need is dealers reporting legal activity... now if someone walks in and buys a gun and asks for one bullet, or two..and mumbles something like she's gonna pay.. I would refuse to sell the gun.. and call the local police department..
So, when YOU are suspicious of a sale, its OK to report it, but if someone else feels sometthing is amiss, they shouldn't call the authorities? In neither case was a crime committed......yet you say you'd call in one case, and admonish others for doing so in the other.......it comes down to a judgement call, and not everyone is going to make the calls that you would, or vice versa. While I don't agree with mandatory reporting, I don't believe dealers should EVER hesitate to let someone know if they feel something just isn't quite right about a sale. If someone came in and asked to buy 10 AK's....it might raise an eyebrow or two, but wouldn't automaitcally put me on high altert. If someone came in, asked how many AKs I had in stock, and despite quoting 30-40, they say "i'll take 'em" and whip out wads of cash before asking about prices, specific models, calibers, etc and the like......yeah, thats not typical, not by a long shot, and would likely raise my suspicions to the point I'd call the ATF.....
wendelb
Member
Yeah sure, but AKs are one of the easiest things to turn full auto... it's just illegal to do it (make a new auto sear or jimmy rig it)... but even then, they could be taking a page out of the book from most militaries... semi or three round burst. Full auto is usually pretty inefficient. Though I'm sure plenty will dispute that. Dispute or not, I'd rather have a semi than full auto in a gun fight. And cartels are going that way too. Full on squads with riflemen, and then one or two machine gunners for supporting fire.
Cartels are actually getting some pretty well trained shoot teams, guys bothering enough to use one-point slings, create reload tags on their mags.... been lots of personalized gear found at shootings. Not that you were saying there weren't, just throwing the info out there. I get a lot of crime scene reports for Mexico and the border.
Cartels are actually getting some pretty well trained shoot teams, guys bothering enough to use one-point slings, create reload tags on their mags.... been lots of personalized gear found at shootings. Not that you were saying there weren't, just throwing the info out there. I get a lot of crime scene reports for Mexico and the border.
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therewolf
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So let's recap:
1) The very ATF which, up to now, has made it painfully apparent to the most casual observer that they have trouble finding the GROUND UNDERNEATH THEIR FEET all of a sudden made a sweeping series of arrests and confiscations, with
evidence, data to support gun-grabber's claims, monetary information,etc.
2)Somehow, after demonstrating not only that the ATF CAN do their jobs IF and WHEN it supports the current administration's interests for propaganda purposes,
but they will do so, especially when the administration has a fact-finding ploy to further attempt to curtail our RKBA; they are completely willing to ignore the fact that if they CAN do their jobs like they are claiming to have just clearly demonstrated, theoretically, further laws against law abiding gun owners and purchasers should be unnecessary, RIGHT? ATF's got it ALL under control.
(all of a sudden)
3)Store owners supposedly being paid twice what the "AK47s" are worth, especially at wholesale, did nothing to protect themselves or their buyers,
who are obviously the ONLY PEOPLE ON EARTH who don't know the value of a WASR, or how to negotiate a volume purchase. Be real, deals like these
don't get made wholesale at 200% of the value of the gun, or, for that matter, across the counter.(Straw Man)- "Yeah, I'd like to openly buy EVERY AK you've got,
but I can only pay you TWICE WHAT THEY'RE WORTH, GOT A MEGAPHONE? MAYBE THERE'S SOMEBODY WITHIN A TWENTY MILE RADIUS WHO
DIDN'T NOTICE WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE!!
Well, you can call me a numb-nutz if you want, but IMO, to say this story stinks is like calling a sewage plant a beer fart.
BAD monkey! NO peanut!
1) The very ATF which, up to now, has made it painfully apparent to the most casual observer that they have trouble finding the GROUND UNDERNEATH THEIR FEET all of a sudden made a sweeping series of arrests and confiscations, with
evidence, data to support gun-grabber's claims, monetary information,etc.
2)Somehow, after demonstrating not only that the ATF CAN do their jobs IF and WHEN it supports the current administration's interests for propaganda purposes,
but they will do so, especially when the administration has a fact-finding ploy to further attempt to curtail our RKBA; they are completely willing to ignore the fact that if they CAN do their jobs like they are claiming to have just clearly demonstrated, theoretically, further laws against law abiding gun owners and purchasers should be unnecessary, RIGHT? ATF's got it ALL under control.
(all of a sudden)
3)Store owners supposedly being paid twice what the "AK47s" are worth, especially at wholesale, did nothing to protect themselves or their buyers,
who are obviously the ONLY PEOPLE ON EARTH who don't know the value of a WASR, or how to negotiate a volume purchase. Be real, deals like these
don't get made wholesale at 200% of the value of the gun, or, for that matter, across the counter.(Straw Man)- "Yeah, I'd like to openly buy EVERY AK you've got,
but I can only pay you TWICE WHAT THEY'RE WORTH, GOT A MEGAPHONE? MAYBE THERE'S SOMEBODY WITHIN A TWENTY MILE RADIUS WHO
DIDN'T NOTICE WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE!!
Well, you can call me a numb-nutz if you want, but IMO, to say this story stinks is like calling a sewage plant a beer fart.
BAD monkey! NO peanut!
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NJ Accountant
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http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-...on-project-gunwalker?do_not_mobile_redirect=1
Heh guess I can post links with some difficultly.
Project gunwalker is a story only being covered by 2nd amendment writers who claim to have whistle blowers from inside the atf who wish to come forward with information about project gunrunner and possible illegal acts taken by the atf. At this time they are trying to get whistle blower protection for the agents that wish to come forward.
Heh guess I can post links with some difficultly.
Project gunwalker is a story only being covered by 2nd amendment writers who claim to have whistle blowers from inside the atf who wish to come forward with information about project gunrunner and possible illegal acts taken by the atf. At this time they are trying to get whistle blower protection for the agents that wish to come forward.
UI was posting an example of someone who was openly making it clear they had ILLEGAL intensions... and purchasing a gun to commit a crime is illegal if the dealer has knowledge of it. That is where I think this whole lands. If they were a legit dealer and they knew, then string them up. But the fact alone of what was pirchased doesn't seem to me to determine guilt
KBintheSLC
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This wreaks of pretext for a global UN small arms control treaty. I have no doubt that they are pumping the primer for such a move.
merlinfire
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That's been my thought. If something is legal to possess, and there is no limit on how much you can legally possess, what difference does it make by what degree I increase my level of possession of legally obtained and owned items.
It's like saying they'd like a soft cap on ownership even if there's not a hard cap that would pass muster.
If the person buying them could not legally own them, then I don't care if he was buying one or a hundred and one, he's a lawbreaker.
NJ Accountant
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There is also the possibility that the dealers informed the atf of suspicious activity before or after the sale and were told to go ahead with it. It is also possible they knew all along and the end buyer in Mexico who they we suppose to deliver them to was law enforcement too or an informant.
It was rumored that a bust/arrest was supposed to happen, this was written about
It was rumored that a bust/arrest was supposed to happen, this was written about
4 days before the arrest. The columnist who writes for the examiner from my post about project gunwalker alludes to this possibility.Bubbles
Member
A month of additional investigation by CBS totally shreds MSNBC's story:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/02/23/eveningnews/main20035609.shtml?tag=cbsnewsSectionContent.1
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/02/23/eveningnews/main20035609.shtml?tag=cbsnewsSectionContent.1
Safetychain
Member
Hey you posters! When you complain about the gun stores not reporting the multiple gun sales, how about reading the "CBS NEWS" post that states "Often bought with cash, and sometimes brought in paper bags, sources tell CBS News that several gun shops wanted to stop the questionable sales, but were encouraged to continue selling by the ATF, so that they could continue gathering intelligence and see where the weapons ended up." The ATF cannot have it both ways. If I were selling and been told by the ATF to "Don't worry, be happy" I'd go ahead and make my money and tell all my other gun store buddies about it. If we didn't have such a farce of a border situation, there wouldn't be any problem.
NJ Accountant
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I honestly had doubts when I first read about this. I thought ok maybe there was some thing got out of hand, the bad guys slipped through the cracks and a tragedy happen But once news hit about 30 arrested and hundreds of guns siezed. It stunk and I got a sinking feeling that it was bad.
I just wonder where this will go and if that agents family will get vindicated or if this will all be another "oops our bad, promise it wont happen again."
http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2011/02/vindication-cbs-runs-definitive.html
I hope the light shine bright on what happened.
I just wonder where this will go and if that agents family will get vindicated or if this will all be another "oops our bad, promise it wont happen again."
http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2011/02/vindication-cbs-runs-definitive.html
I hope the light shine bright on what happened.
Kalashnikovkid
Member
These stories always make me laugh.
If you watch the video at the bottom of the link on the story, they inevitably show crate after crate of short barreled rifles, and toys with the giggle switch still enabled, and then try to equate the straw buyers they claim to be causing such a problem to be buying such weapons. However, as I'm sure everyone here already knows, unless gunstores across the border regularly stock Class III items that can be bought in mass, and NFA rules no longer apply so there isn't a 3-6 month wait while the ATF investigates your background to so that you can acquire ONE weapon from a finite pool, then this reeks of media bias and bad journaling.
I vote we get our own correspondents to do a story that shows this "issue" in its TRUE light. Or perhaps they media would like to explain away why so little legislative/executive action has been effective in stemming the flow of drugs that stream INTO this country? I'm also STILL waiting for a story that explains what happened to all of those fully automatic REAL assault rifles that have been used in the number of internal wars/civil conflicts amongst South American and Central American countries in the last few decades, but that answer might imply that a government (like Mexico's!), would do something so corrupt as sell assault rifles to Drug Cartel's and terrorist. Oops, I also forgot, in Mexico, the Drug Cartel's and the government are sometimes one in the same.
Silly me!
Guess I'll go have some more Kool-Aid and forget
If you watch the video at the bottom of the link on the story, they inevitably show crate after crate of short barreled rifles, and toys with the giggle switch still enabled, and then try to equate the straw buyers they claim to be causing such a problem to be buying such weapons. However, as I'm sure everyone here already knows, unless gunstores across the border regularly stock Class III items that can be bought in mass, and NFA rules no longer apply so there isn't a 3-6 month wait while the ATF investigates your background to so that you can acquire ONE weapon from a finite pool, then this reeks of media bias and bad journaling.
I vote we get our own correspondents to do a story that shows this "issue" in its TRUE light. Or perhaps they media would like to explain away why so little legislative/executive action has been effective in stemming the flow of drugs that stream INTO this country? I'm also STILL waiting for a story that explains what happened to all of those fully automatic REAL assault rifles that have been used in the number of internal wars/civil conflicts amongst South American and Central American countries in the last few decades, but that answer might imply that a government (like Mexico's!), would do something so corrupt as sell assault rifles to Drug Cartel's and terrorist. Oops, I also forgot, in Mexico, the Drug Cartel's and the government are sometimes one in the same.
Silly me!
Guess I'll go have some more Kool-Aid and forget
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