20 gauge slug vs 30/30

[Hungry Seagull]

Are we talking about shows where Ultraman has to be called out after the staff's hand weapons fail to stop the opponet on the old 60-70's shows?

(Yeesh, ancient aint I? Some of you young folks need to google that a bit)

Always something going on trashing a major city in Japan or some place with thousands fleeing, but nary a care as long as bad monster is brought down.

 

[broken]

...

man you guys are killin me"laughing". i remember ultraman, and i coulnt wait to get out of school in the 70"s and watch the giant golden robot with hair and his whole robot family lived in a volcano,they fought monsters,i forgot their name,i found them on youtube,what a riot.

 

[nicksterdemus]

"Check Out Jeff Zimba from Small Arms Review, he tested 12ga from 7" to 30" barrels. With 2 3/4" Remington Sluggers, 22"-30" barrels were getting 1575ish FPS. The 18" barrel got 1425ish FPS....

Extra length in a shotgun does TWO things. Longer Sight radius, and extra weight. A properly choked 18" barrel will do the same as a properly choked 30" barrel. "


I tried in vain to find this article online. I don't doubt the results, however the 3" rnd adds a little extra that produces quite the fireball from a 18.5" brl.

I think a closer example, to the 20ga, would be the 44 magnum in a lever.

Resting between the 1/2oz hi-vel slugger & the 5/8oz regular slugger the 240gn pistola cartridge 44 shares a blunt profile even if the 20ga is right at 1.5X diameter.


Interesting is Chuck Hawks' take on the lowly 20.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/shotgun_slugs.htm

"Conventional Foster type rifled slugs generally weigh 1 ounce in 12 gauge, 4/5 ounce in 16 gauge, 5/8 ounce in 20 gauge, and 1/5 ounce (or 87 grains) in .410 gauge.

The 12 gauge slug has an advertised muzzle velocity (MV) of 1560 fps from a 2 3/4" high-brass shell, 1680 fps from a 2 3/4" Magnum shell, or 1760 fps from a 3" Magnum shell. These are Remington figures from their 2004 catalog. The MV's of the other gauges are similar.

The catalog energy figures for the common high-brass ("maximum") 12 gauge slug load are an impressive 2361 ft. lbs. at the muzzle, but only 926 ft. lbs. at 100 yards. This is due to the very poor BC of the slug.

Sighted to hit dead on at 50 yards, that slug is 4.8" low at 100 yards. The more powerful 12 gauge slugs are only marginally better, and kick noticeably harder. No matter what, rifled slugs remain a short range proposition.

Stick with 12 gauge Foster type slugs for deer hunting as the smaller gauges pack much less punch. The 20 gauge slug develops only 648 ft. lbs. of energy at 100 yards, which given its low SD is not encouraging.

I have done some testing with .410 rifled slugs and they are definitely not adequate deer loads. The less said about these small bore rifled slugs the better."
----------------------------

"The less said about these small bore rifled slugs the better."

A 61 caliber, 273gn chunk of lead chugging along over 1000'ps shouldn't have a problem penetrating a thin skinned critter.

"...only 648 ft. lbs..."

Sounds like your run of the mill 4" brl ME of a hot .357 magnum knocking on the door of a warm 10mm load.

This doesn't jive w/me & I can't call the logic kosher.

A lot of deer harvested aren't any or much larger than a brush goat. How much overkill is required?

I don't think the biggest, 'baddest' deer in the lower 48 could withstand a direct hit from the 20ga foster slug at 100 yards.

The gist of the problem appears to lay in hitting the sweet spot from that distance w/smooth bore.

Granted, this wouldn't be my rnd of choice for bear defense unless I was totin' a semi-auto w/15 rnd banana mag.

The soft lead wouldn't penetrate to vitals, yet I think I could turn 'em & take the wind outa their sail.


I wonder if any 20 gauge sabot loads are closer to the maximum 12,000 psi, SAAMI specification.

I take note that the Hi-Vel, 1/2oz, 20 gauge Slugger is rated a 1050 bar.

They say the 3" 20 killed the 16, so did the rifled slug brl, coupled w/sabot rnd, kill any notion of a 3.5" 20 gauge?

 

[MCgunner]

Don't get carried away. The sectional density of a 20 gauge is pathetic. Oh, I think it'll kill most any hog within 50 yards that I'll wanna kill, but it ain't close to a .45/70 unless you're talking black powder loads at 50 yards and even then, the .45/70 has far superior sectional density for much better penetration. I'd rather use my 12" .30-30 contender on a 100 yard hog than the 20 gauge OR the 12, personally. People think a shotgun slug is analogous to a big rifle, but it's a bit, short lump of lead poking along. The energy figures for the thing are deceptive. Medium sized game, sure, it'll work. But, I'd rather be hunting brown bear (some people think the 12 gauge slug is optimum) with a .338 Win Mag myself. I hit him with a couple of slugs and piss him off, he might just stuff that shotgun where the sun don't shine.

All moot as I'll probably never see Alaska let alone ever hunt there. That's rich man's stuff.

 

[nicksterdemus]

I don't propose the shotgun launching a slug is close to a rifle, hence my comparison to a pistol cartridge out of a carbine as opposed
to a 30 caliber that was hot stuff towards the end of the 19th century.

A wooden spear w/flint tip lashed to the end penetrated & provided venison before the bow and I'm quite sure that nowhere
near 600+ foot-pounds of energy was required for either.

Obviously I'm a cheerleader for the 20 gauge.

The whole notion of a slug, especially a sabot & rifled brl, muddies the spirit of the scattergun somewhat.

The everything gun to every man that's affordable is compromised in some of its single projectile capabilities.

Plowing through leaf, brush, grass and branch in the scatters ain't one of them though.

Of course there are large caliber rifles that have the same brush gun qualities, yet they don't convert well to shooting multiple pellets.

The shotgun is a versatile tool that w/slug fills a niche quite well reinforcing its multipurpose platform.

It can no more compete, in the same class, w/large caliber rifles than they can attempt the same based on the scattergun's strength.

However, the smooth bore scores more points masquerading as a rifle than vice-versa...

 

[50caliber123]

I concur with nicksterdemus: A good slug gun should be smooth-bore. Then in a pinch, shotshells can be used.

 

[Sheepdog1968]

Massad Ayoob wrote a wonderful article in Backwoods Home Magazine about the 20 gauge shotgun. It is better than just about any handgun. I would sleep fine at night if this was I owned to defend myself with 00 buck or slugs depending on your living conditions. The MOST important thing is your ability to be able to use it. You need to take several good shotgun classes and practice with it. Yes, each class will run the cost of a new firearm but it is the best money you can spend. If you have good skill at arms understressful situations you will be effective. It's the mettle and trainng of the man that matters; not the instrument. All this my opinion.

 

[MCgunner]

Neat thing about slugs, when I dove hunt, I carry a few on me. If I hear hogs or see one approaching, a quick ammo swap gives me the tool. Mine's a SxS double, so changing ammo is quick and relatively silent. It make for a great outback gun with slugs. They have a lot of uses even if I don't use one for hunting. I only keep foster slugs around, work great in a smooth bore.

 

[Jason_W]

Medium sized game, sure, it'll work. But, I'd rather be hunting brown bear (some people think the 12 gauge slug is optimum) with a .338 Win Mag myself. I hit him with a couple of slugs and piss him off, he might just stuff that shotgun where the sun don't shine.

I don't know. I wouldn't feel undergunned with a mag full of these

http://www.europeancartridgeunlimited.com/en/usslug.html

I have a box of the 570 grainers sitting on my workbench. I need to start working up a load for them. I can't wait to try the heavier versions.

 

[nicksterdemus]

That's the nice thing about doubles, besides having two quick shots, they're easy to load/unload.

However, I have a cheap, brand spankin' new, semi-20 that's itchin' for a niche.


Dang Jason, I'm not sure I could handle the receiving end on that 3" 20ga.

I'm thinking the Turkish Terror might need a lighter diet to cycle.


I'm afraid the time is upon us where the 18.5-21" rifled shotgun brl will be touted as the dual purpose/combo platter.

Rifling for shots in the 90-120 yd range and short brl for home defense w/doughnut pattern actually becoming a selling point.

Then the ammo manufacturers will come out w/buck n ball placing the larger shot in the center to run true to course w/smaller on the outside as the catch-all spread.

This is a point where the larger diameter bore would be more beneficial.

Maybe even a reduced recoil 10 leading up to a race for the double 8 in the HD feeding frenzy.

So deadly; you'll only need two rounds, but comes w/ejectors, just in case...