20g trap loads? (Kind of a good problem)

Status
Not open for further replies.
K

Kingcreek

Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2002
Messages
3,499
Location
at the center of my own little universe
Hey all. I coach and transport and troubleshoot for our local high school FFA trap shooting team. Great group of students and they have to cover their own costs. We are a school district with over 70% poverty rate so we have a little bit of everything for shotguns and ammo.
We just had someone donate 5 cases of new factory Remington #8 trap loads. Yay!
Problem is about 1/2 of our shooters are using 20g and these are largely the younger newer shooters most in need of help and practice.
I am considering buying a couple cases of 20 and swapping it out so we have shells for all and I would essentially be buying the 12g for my own use (don’t really need it) but I’m not having any luck finding 20g.
A bit of sticker shock since last time I bought trap loads I was paying $40 per case.
If anybody knows of a source for 20g or have other ideas please let me know.
I’ve already donated into the program to my comfort level. I want to see them succeed but I can only do so much.
Thanks
 
No matter where you purchase from, pay attention to the shipping costs. Sometimes, a good price will have high shipping and a slightly higher cost, from another vender, will have free shipping. Look at the total cost.
 
12 gauge is cheaper and more available. It's always that way. I loaded my own when I shot on a league. 20 G small game loads are what I used sometimes for target loads. Good luck finding any at a decent price.
 
Check some of your local independent gun shops. I’ve found a couple shops in my area that have a lot of trap loads on hand. Although the price is high, maybe they’ll cut a deal. Youth programs are full of future customers.
 
If a store donated instead of an individual, you might not be able to "swap it out", as there are Federal regulations concerning ammo returns.
Time for some creative fundraising, and/or asking your local gunshops to donate, or as barnfixer said, cut the FFA (or individual students) a deal. I've had great success with this.
Another possibility, at least for next year. (It's too late for this year.) Federal sells subsidized flats by the pallet to youth shooting organizations. Get a hold of them on their website and find out about it.
 
I feel that shooting a 20 GA for trap is like a punch back to about 22 yards. We subbed a couple of our 20 GA shooters with 12s and immediately picked up birds. Even with 1 oz loads. Bigger the bore, more even the pattern with same amount of shot. At least per WW Greener, Neil Winston, and Sir PapaG
 
I am pretty much in a constant hunt for 20-ga trap loads, as I also coach a team of kids (and have for many years). Today I had five shooters on the 16 yd line, all shooting very well, all using standard 7/8 oz loads in their Beretta 20-ga semi-autos. For kids you have to keep recoil down if you want them to do well and stick with it. If you want a 7/8 oz 12-ga. load these days you have to make it yourself. I have to use factory shells with the kids, and I have not seen a 7/8 oz 12-ga trap load for sale in over a year.

Years ago I did a lot of patterning of various 12-gauges and 20-gauges in different chokes until I came to the conclusion from counting about a million pellet holes that there is zero difference between my 12's and my 20's, pattern-wise, with all shooting 7/8 oz. Anyone who says 12's pattern better is full of it. I shoot bunker where 7/8 oz is the maximum allowed (24g, technically) and my bunker gun is 20-ga MX-8 choked Mod and lite-Full. Works awesome from the 21-yard-line even with the Mod choke (I haven't tried farther back).

The hard part is teaching them how to see the bird and how and when to move to it. Once they are doing those things right their 20-gauges with 7/8 oz loads work fine, even with an IC choke (but a Mod is better).

I did not see anyone mention GunBroker. I have found a lot of my shells there the past few months. For a while there were plenty of 20's on the shelves, but those dried up a few months ago. There are a lot of people trying to get ridiculous prices there, though, so you have to shop. Also check the shipping costs. Some include shipping, some don't.
 
X-Maker said:
I am pretty much in a constant hunt for 20-ga trap loads, as I also coach a team of kids (and have for many years). Today I had five shooters on the 16 yd line, all shooting very well, all using standard 7/8 oz loads in their Beretta 20-ga semi-autos. For kids you have to keep recoil down if you want them to do well and stick with it. If you want a 7/8 oz 12-ga. load these days you have to make it yourself. I have to use factory shells with the kids, and I have not seen a 7/8 oz 12-ga trap load for sale in over a year.

Years ago I did a lot of patterning of various 12-gauges and 20-gauges in different chokes until I came to the conclusion from counting about a million pellet holes that there is zero difference between my 12's and my 20's, pattern-wise, with all shooting 7/8 oz. Anyone who says 12's pattern better is full of it. I shoot bunker where 7/8 oz is the maximum allowed (24g, technically) and my bunker gun is 20-ga MX-8 choked Mod and lite-Full. Works awesome from the 21-yard-line even with the Mod choke (I haven't tried farther back).

The hard part is teaching them how to see the bird and how and when to move to it. Once they are doing those things right their 20-gauges with 7/8 oz loads work fine, even with an IC choke (but a Mod is better).

I did not see anyone mention GunBroker. I have found a lot of my shells there the past few months. For a while there were plenty of 20's on the shelves, but those dried up a few months ago. There are a lot of people trying to get ridiculous prices there, though, so you have to shop. Also check the shipping costs. Some include shipping, some don't.
Click to expand...
Don't know where you are but 7/8 ounce 12 GA loads seem to be all over the place in central IL. Prices are generally higher than one or 1 1/8 ounce stuff. Personally, after fifty five years of trap and other sport shooting, I believe with right gun fit and weight a kid can easily handle 1145 fps 1 or 1 1/8 oz loads from an auto and most from a pump or o/u. My granddaughter was shooting 1 1/8 from a cut down 1100 when she was 12 and 115#. We have several on our youth team doing the same using Beretta and Benelli autos. Twenty gauge shotguns, in my own opinion, are an unnecessary handicap after a certain point. Randy Wakeman will disagree. (He, who said he did, anyway, shot 200 straight from the 27 with a 20).
 
Last edited:
We have 9-12 grade and some of the freshman are pretty small. Usually 10-12 shooters total. All our shooters provide their own shotgun and some are basic 20g single shot and some pump guns, a little bit of everything on the line. Some of these families struggle to find and afford ammo. I have loaned my own shotguns (both 12g) and I have handed over my own shells many times when it was the difference between a kid shooting or watching.
I’m reaching out to some local places incl the Isaac Walton league to see if I can locate 2-3 cases of 20g 7/8oz. Might be able to at least get a discount from the local farm store or there is a bass pro about 50 miles away. I’ll keep looking.
Thanks
 
PapaG said:
Don't know where you are but 7/8 ounce 12 GA loads seem to be all over the place in central IL. Prices are generally higher than one or 1 1/8 ounce stuff. Personally, after fifty five years of trap and other sport shooting, I believe with right gun fit and weight a kid can easily handle 1145 fps 1 or 1 1/8 oz loads from an auto and most from a pump or o/u. My granddaughter was shooting 1 1/8 from a cut down 1100 when she was 12 and 115#. We have several on our youth team doing the same using Beretta and Benelli autos. Twenty gauge shotguns, in my own opinion, are an unnecessary handicap after a certain point. Randy Wakeman will disagree. (He, who said he did, anyway, shot 200 straight from the 27 with a 20).
Click to expand...

I was not talking about the 12-ga. 7/8 oz 1,350 loads -- they recoil worse than the 1,145 fps 1 oz you mentioned. I was talking about 12-ga 7/8 oz at around 1,200. There have been none even on the Internet over the past year. There are, however, plenty of 20-ga. in the standard 7/8 oz at around 1,200.

It is very easy to tell if a kid (or an adult, for that matter) is getting too much recoil -- you just stand 90 degrees to their shooting direction and watch how much their upper body gets gets knocked back, and how much their head whiplashes on their body, when they shoot, assuming good (nose over toes) posture and good gun-fit. By that measure my petite 14 yr old shooting a weighted A400 is right at her limit with 7/8 oz 1,210 loads. Any more weight in the gun and it would be too heavy for the fast bunker targets she shoots.

There is plenty of time to graduate them to a 12-ga after they are big enough to handle one. Before then a 20-ga with standard 7/8 oz loads works fine.
 
entropy said:
The hot core (Innermost 10") of a 12 ga. load's pattern is more dense than a 20ga. load's pattern through the same choke at the same yardage. The hot core is where smokeballs are formed.
Click to expand...

Believe that if you want. My pretty extensive patterning says whoever told you that made it up.
 
Kingcreek said:
We have 9-12 grade and some of the freshman are pretty small. Usually 10-12 shooters total. All our shooters provide their own shotgun and some are basic 20g single shot and some pump guns, a little bit of everything on the line. Some of these families struggle to find and afford ammo. I have loaned my own shotguns (both 12g) and I have handed over my own shells many times when it was the difference between a kid shooting or watching.
I’m reaching out to some local places incl the Isaac Walton league to see if I can locate 2-3 cases of 20g 7/8oz. Might be able to at least get a discount from the local farm store or there is a bass pro about 50 miles away. I’ll keep looking.
Thanks
Click to expand...

You can buy 20-ga trap loads right here for $130 including shipping. I have at times found them cheaper than that but those places are out now. Like I said, if you watch GB and are patient there are some decent deals.

I keep thinking we will get back to $60 - $70 flats of quality ammo, but it keeps not happening. The kids are kids only once, and the truth is that it was an expensive sport even before the pandemic hit. We may cut back on shooting a bit but I want them shooting.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/931131530
 
The supply of 20 gauge has not quite gotten back to normal yet but I have started to occasionally see it on store shelves.

about 3 weeks ago I came across some at Walmart and loaded up. A couple boxes of Winchester super targets and some cases of federal field and target. And about 2 weeks ago I saw some at bass pro for a little more than Walmart.

My best advice to avoid overpaying is become a regular at your local big box and hope for a little luck. While it’s still selling out pretty quickly I have noticed they have started to get it in semi regularly. It shouldn’t be too hard to find if you stop by 1-2 times a week.

Which honestly a few trips to Walmart/bass pro/academy/whoever is near you, doesn’t really seem like a particularly bad idea to me even if you didn’t need ammo. I always seem to find something I need/want when I am there.

last time I was at bass pro in addition to the ammo I got some nice flat pack ammo crates that fit nicely under my bed and a whole load of olive woollybuggers that served me real nice on the river fishing that weekend.
 
The team my son and I coach has only one 20 gauge shooter and I kept him supplied from my stash, until we set him up with a nice 12.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

A
  • Locked
Trap Range Report: Benneli Nova 20g and Simson 16g
Replies
3
Views
863
Dave McCracken
D
F
  • Locked
"Skeet Shoulder"
Replies
6
Views
534
sm
S
M
  • Locked
Ode to a Single Shot
Replies
20
Views
1K
Bud Tugly
B
A
  • Locked
Trap Range Report: CZ 720
Replies
3
Views
882
Dave McCracken
D
B
  • Locked
Trap Shoot - Load Question
Replies
3
Views
623
kermit315
K
Back
Top