22-250 out to 400yds

[RancidSumo]

I am currently debating with a certain member here about the accuracy of a 22-250 and other callibers at 400yds with factory ammo. It seems to me that with good ammo and a good rifle/glass that minute of prairie dog is easily doable. So, what does the rest of the members here think, will a 22-250 shoot well enough for PD's at 400yds with factory ammo?

 

[skinewmexico]

Sure. But so will a 223, at less cost.

 

[taliv]

i voted yes, but it would have to be pretty dang good factory ammo. handloads would be a walk in the park

 

[Shawnee]

Hi Rancid...

Your problem in that type shooting is the wind much more so than bullet drop. The amount a bullet is affected by wind is directly due to how fast it sheds its' speed.

Example...

The Hornady .22/250 40gr. Vmax starts out at a scorching 4100 fps.
The Hornady .243 75gr. Vmax launches at 3400 fps.
But the .22/250 sheds more fps faster, much faster, than the .243.

With a 200yd. "zero", the 40gr. Vmax from a .22/250 will drop 14 inches at 400 yds. A 75gr. Vmax from a .243 will drop 13 inches. Not too much difference there. HOWEVER...

In a 10mph breeze that .22/250 bullet will be deflected 20 inches at 400yds. The .243 load will be defelected only 13.5 inches - that's 6.5 more inches of "guesstimation" you have to get right with the .22/250. Said another way - the deflection of the .243 load is about 2/3 the deflection of the .22/250.

But let's bump the wind just another 5mph - and 15mph is not at all uncommon in PrairieDogLand.

The .22/250 now has a deflection of 30 inches at 400 yds while the .243 load is deflected only 20 inches - again, about 2/3.

Which would be easier for you to use ?

As for cost...

Some pdog shooters have a high percentage of hits and some have a low percentage of hits. The ones with a high percentage of hits are almost always the ones who take their time and who have a lower total of shots fired. The ones with a low percentage of hits are usually the ones who fire the most shots (into the dirt and rocks and grass).

When you get a chance - compare the cost of sixty .243 cartridges to the cost of of three hundred .22/250 cartridges and decide which is less expensive.

 

[Idano]

Shawn,

No argument with your facts but I think your logic is flawed if you're going to factor in the effect of wind on accuracy then the accuracy of your 243 is horrible when compared to the 50 BMG at those ranges. If you are going to compare accuracy then do it apples to apples and not apples to oranges; compare the ballistics for the 75 gr bullets in both guns. The 40 gr bullet in the 22-250 is probably the worst bullet, especially at those ranges to compare against.

 

[Shawnee]

Hi Idano...


I know what you're saying, Idano - the .75-grainer from a .22/250 will rival the factory .243 load.

However...

... without reloading (which I believe Rancid said he wasn't going to do), the 7r-gr. bullet for the .22/250 is not an answer at all.

I think the World of the .22/250 but the .243 is still the better choice.

 

[Tarvis]

For my PD trip, I bought a savage 12 LRPV in 22-250 and loaded 55gr vmax infront of 4064 for about 3650 fps (iirc). I was very happy with the rifle (besides how poor the accu trigger performs after 600 rounds of fouling) and the load I chose, including a few PD's taken at 400 yards. While you do have some logic there, shawnee, idano is right; apples to oranges. Personally, I think 55 grs is about the smallest I would consider for PD's with a 22-250.

On windage: as long as your adjustment stays constant, 2 moa or 3 moa makes no difference. BUT, when the wind shifts a little bit or slows for a few seconds, say 5mph, a bullet with a higher BC will only deviate .75-1 inch (for example, not actual numbers) while a bullet with a lower BC will deviate by slightly more, which could mean a miss. At least I think that's correct; does the BC of the bullet determine how much wind drift the bullet will have, all else the same?

 

[Art Eatman]

Even if you odn't reload, some factory loads are going to work better in a particular rifle than other factory loads. Once that's all figured out, then you're in business.

Hits to 400 yards depend on knowing the distance and doping the wind. Any .22 centerfire which has a muzzle velocity notably above 3,000 ft/sec can readily hold "minute of prairie dog." Above 3,500 just makes it easier.

 

[Shawnee]

Hi Tarvis...

To the degree that BC affects velocity loss, Yes, it does influence wind drift. High BC is good, but not Miraculous.

Yes, I understand comparing the 40gr to the 75gr is apples/oranges - but Rancid has specified factory ammo. As in: Factory Ammo. In other words Factory Ammo. And he's also concerned about cost.

Looking at the load you describe (55grainer) it still drifts nearly 18" at 400yds. in a 10mph breeze, and that is still about 1/3 more drift than the common 75-grainer from a .243.

 

[Idano]

I think the World of the .22/250 but the .243 is still the better choice.

There is the proof that you're a sick individual, you share the same sentiments as my best friend. LOL You're right about the OP stating factory and to be honest I don't even know what is available today off the shelf with the same bullet weights. When I was growing up the 243 was a deer rifle but now I concur it is very good varmint rifle just like it's baby brother 243 WSM.

 

[marksman13]

Shawnee, for someone who doesn't know how to dope for wind, your argument makes sense. It fails, however, when you try to apply it to a knowledgeable shooter who knows how the adjust for windage and elevation. Is the 243 a better choice? Probably. Is the 22-250 capable? Sure it is.

 

[aspade]

Not nearly good enough.

I read in the June issue of Guns and Bullets that the 21st century doggies have been being shot at for so long that the ones left can actually see a bullet from the old 22-250 coming and dodge it.

Not only that, the bigger trophy doggies have thick hides such that a light 40 grain bullet will just deflect off, often as not. Unless of course you use Barnes' Varmint Grenade bullets, the subject of the article. They are high tech, lead free projectiles originally developed for tactical military applications. And you can purchase them from Midway at 1-800-243-3220. (For more details, see advertisement on next page.)

If you insist on using antiquated lead core bullets at the long range of 400 yards, you should really use no less than the 6mm-300 Weatherby. Expect to lose some dogs though.

Good shooting.

 

[bogie]

If I was -building- a prairie dog gun for long distance, I'd do a 6.5/284.

For under 500 yards, I'd find a used competition rifle - and not CMP/Highpower-type competition either. Benchrest. Have the gunsmith enlarge the neck to take factory Lapua brass, and you're there.

A .22-250 should be perfectly adequate. If it is an accurate rifle. Intrinsically accurate "calibers" are only as the barrels which are chambered for them. A "drop in" barrel from Midway ain't gonna cut it.

 

[Tarvis]

Yes, I understand comparing the 40gr to the 75gr is apples/oranges - but Rancid has specified factory ammo. As in: Factory Ammo. In other words Factory Ammo. And he's also concerned about cost.

You aren't limited to 40gr factory ammo in the 22-250, and the load I use was for reference purposes, not as a suggestion.

To the degree that BC affects velocity loss, Yes, it does influence wind drift. High BC is good, but not Miraculous.

Well there you go. Weather he has to turn the knob 8 clicks or 12, what difference does it make? What if he had to turn it 50 clicks? The POI remains the same for both cartridges.

 

[bogie]

He also needs to think outside the factory ammo box.

He can handload, using a minimum amount of equipment, pretty much as fast as his rifle will have the solvent work on the barrel.

It ain't that hard.

It ain't that hard.

And it'll fit in a toolbox. Not that big a toolbox either.

 

[bogie]

Oh, and another reason to handload.

If you have a factory rifle, and you wanna shoot factory rounds, you're gonna end up buying maybe 10 boxes of factory ammo, to see which one shoots best in your chamber/throat/barrel.

Let's be old fashioned, and call that $150.

Ten more boxes (200 rounds) of your choice will be another $150, if one is still feeling old fashioned.

So...

$03 0000 steel wool to wipe off
$5 imperial die wax

Sizing
$80 RCBS Partner Press (you can do better than all these prices)
$80 .22-250 Hornady FL bushing die set with button
wipe off die wax with rag

$25 Primer pocket uniformer/cleaner
$20 Lee Auto Prime w/ .308 case head holder

$75 Powder measure of your choice (used)
$80 RCBS Partner Press for seater

This will do everything you need to load. If it makes you comfy, add a $25 scale via ebay - but Lee will work fine.

 

[N1150X]

22-250 would work out to 800 yards with heavy loads as far a energy goes. As far a wind goes a 30 dollar wind meter and a little research will tell you exactly where to put your shots. I'm sure you could get away with a 223 to 400 yards but hey 22-250 just means they mist more

 

[taliv]

As far a wind goes a 30 dollar wind meter and a little research will tell you exactly where to put your shots.

heh, if only it were that easy

 

[bogie]

As far a wind goes a 30 dollar wind meter and a little research will tell you exactly where to put your shots.

I wish it was that easy. I -really- wish it was that easy.

You can't buy this crap at your local boomstick store.

 

[bogie]

B100.6PPC Heavy Varmint, sleeved/trued Rem 700 action; Hart bbl w/.262 nk <250 rnds; Latino-Borden style f-glass glue-in stock; Canjar 6oz trig; Gunsmith: M. Hollister; VG cond. I’ve seen several <.2 grps from this rig. $875.

Box of 100 pieces of brass will cost you $60ish.

A thousand primers under $40.

8 pounds of powder under $140

750 bullets for under $140 - http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=571719&t=11082005

Add a bore guide, a couple of good cleaning rods, and you can probably average 50+ aimed and accurate shots per hour.

 

[taliv]

if you don't clean your brass every 2 hrs

 

[Shawnee]

"Weather he has to turn the knob 8 clicks or 12, what difference does it make?"

I don't recall what scope Rancid said he would use but his glass will certainly be an important part of the equation and not an inexpensive part, either.

 

[RancidSumo]

We are talking stirctly the ability of factory 22-250 loads. BTW, this isn't me shooting it, this is a continuation of an argument from a different thread.

 

[taliv]

"Weather he has to turn the knob 8 clicks or 12, what difference does it make?"

uhh, 4 clicks?

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Get your friends on video *doing it* - with factory ammo. Until then, in my opinion it's just internet talk/BS from armchair commandos. Good reason why most on this thread bring up handloads. The problem ain't so much shedding velocity, though that's a problem too - the problem is the ammo quality/consistency off of the shelf. You could do it MUCH MUCH more easily with .223 than with .22-250, due to the quality of available ammo like Black Hills, and the higher twist rate/heavier loads available in .223.