.22 Girlfriend Concealed Carry Conundrum

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Hexhead writes:

We've all gone to the range to shoot .22s and had a few duds in the box.
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I've sent maybe 25-30K rounds of .22LR ammo downrange over the years, most of which was CCI MiniMags. Still haven't qualified for membership in that club. Incidentally, I have had one misfire with centerfire ammo, a commercially-reloaded round of .38 Special, which fired the second time the Undercover 38's hammer fell on it. So, quality ammo, both rimfire and centerfire, has been exceptionally reliable for me, so far.

Given that estimates of DGUs per year incidents in the US run from one quarter to three quarters of a million, I'd place money that a couple of thousand involve rimfire pistols. I'd be hard-pressed to call any of their users fools.

Do I think the .22LR is a good choice for self-protection? Yes, I do. Of course, there are different levels of "good", and there is a difference between "good" and "better."

But, I don't consider someone a fool unless they're doing something stupid.

Again, to the OP, many of those here who will tell you to wait until she learns something bigger won't go out tomorrow unarmed. I hope none of them tells you and her to wait.

That being said, there is good advice running in this thread regarding checking out other options (micro-.380 pistols notwithstanding!) Keep your minds open.
 
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HexHead
Only a fool would use a .22 LR pistol for self defense. Rimfire ammo is unreliable. We've all gone to the range to shoot .22s and had a few duds in the box. No big deal with paper, but a big deal if you have to clear a round when there's some guy with a knife trying to rob you. At least with a .22 revolver, you can just pull the trigger again.
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That's more than a bit harsh. If the lady's got it in her mind that she will only start with a 22LR, who are any of us to tell her not to? Is it better to not carry any gun than carrying a 22LR? Perhaps she should carry a whistle???

My only recommendation to the OP is that if his GF will only carry something chambered in 22LR, make it a small revolver. She will be a lot more likely to shoot it. Ammo is still the cheapest - even during these times of scalpers. Odds are that she will eventually move to something bigger. My wife started with a 22LR revolver. She now shoots 40S&W & 9mm regularly and also carries.
 
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Around six years ago, I heard a man in a store trying to interest his significant other in a Scandium .357 Magnum J-Frame. I cannot think of a worse idea. Even with.38 loads, those things are fierce.

Before I would recommend any J-frame I would suggest that a prospective buyer try one first. The trigger pull is not for everyone. and by the way, the trigger on the .22 versions is even worse. They need to be able to effect a heavier hammer strike.

But heck, that advice applies to any firearm.

What may seem like a good choice in a store, perhaps because it is light and small and easy to conceal, may not be a good choice at all. Is the grip large enough for someone to shoot is well and comfortably? Will the recoil make it unpleasant to shoot, or difficult to shoot rapidly? Does the firearm fit the hand of the shooter, and can the shooter operate the various controls? How is the trigger pull? How about the sights?

Generally speaking, the smaller the gun, the harder it will be to shoot it well. And in truth, if one intends to carry it in a manner in which it can be drawn and presented rapidly, a very small size may not be of any real advantage anyway.

One will find those things out at the range. Do so before buying.

Before trying a semi-auto, she should read what Kathy Jackson has to say about racking the slide, and she should work on being able to do it properly.

She should be tho one to choose, but it should be an informed decision. Has she tried the gun? Does she labor under a mistaken belief that one shot will likely top an attacker the way it always does on screen fiction? Has she considered what she should do if five shots proved insufficient to stop one or more dangerous attackers, or if she were left with an empty gun at a very bad time?

It sounds as it she is not leaning toward something with unnecessary power. But she should keep in mind the need to have enough. I have already mentioned that I do not recommend a .22 for self defense. For practice, fine.

Most people seem to consider the .380 to be at the low end of the effectiveness scale, if that. But some of them recoil more than one would like. Grip, weight, and whether the firearm has a locked breach will enter into that determination. Some have a terrible trigger. Also, ammunition is expensive.

A .32? My aunt had some kind of nondescript five shot .32 S&W for years. It was no doubt better than nothing. Maybe.

But when Leon Czolgosz used one to shoot President William McKinley in 1901, his first shot bounced off the President's jacket button. The second shot inflicted a wound that was not considered serious, but McKinley succumbed to infection some time later. That shot would likely not have slowed an attacker very much.

McKinley's sucessor, Theodore Roosevelt, was also shot in the chest by a man with a .32. He refused treatment and gave a ninety minute speech afterward, and he carried the bullet in him for the rest of his life.

There are more effective .32s, but they are out of production and expensive to feed.

Something larger will probably prove to be a better choice.

But do start her at the range with a .22.

And work up from there.
 
Since she has made up her mind already about something she has little to no knowledge of:rolleyes: , I would tell her to do whatever she likes , a .22 is a lot better than nothing ! Maybe your next girlfriend will have her own gun? Kevin :D
 
A S&W 351 J-Frame in .22 Magnum does not have any kick. My wife just bought one and shot it 50 times. She had also tried the J-Frame in 38 Special and said it wasn't that bad, but prefers the .22 Magnum.

The .22 Magnum has been shown to be very similar to the round the FN PS90 and FN57 shoots, and most agree that it is very effective for penetration.

I do agree that I personally would carry a .22LR in a semi-auto handgun for defense, but in a revolver I would.

My wife has two J-Frames now, the S&W 351 .22 WMR and the S&W 317 .22 LR. The trigger is heavy on the 351, but not really heavy on the 317.

S&W 317:
160222_01_md.jpg


My wife got the one called the kit gun:
160221_01_md.jpg


S&W 351:
160228_01_md.jpg


My wife got the 351 with the shrouded hammer, so it could be fired from within a purse or bag if needed. Try that with a semi-auto or an exposed hammer.

160351_01_md.jpg


And here are the common .22's side by side:

22_Long,_22_LR,_22_Winchester_Magnum.jpg
 
I bought a Walther PPK/S in 22lr a few months back because I wanted a small, un-intimidating little handgun that I could use to get newbies started shooting. My wife loves it and enjoys the hell out of shooting it. Buy it for her, use CCI Mini-Mag 40gr solids, and let her be. It's a fun little gun... just enjoy it.

(BTW, that pistol comes with a threaded barrel; you might be able to get yourself a suppressor for some seriously fun plinking.)
 
Just my take.

I get so tickled at these forums. Remarks like, "Only a fool would carry a 22 for SD" make me giddy. I guess all women should carry full sized 1911 in 45 ACP or even better a Desert Eagle. Yeah, that should fit her hand.

If the woman wants a 22, get her a 22. Find one that fits, teach her to handle it properly and shoot the fire out it. Then if she wants move up to a larger caliber she can, but she will still have the 22 for range time.

As for the 22lr not being a SD I say Bull. If Mr. Bad Guy waltzes up with a knife and you pull a gun, even a 22, Mr. Bad Guy loses provided you have enough guts to pull the trigger. If there is a Fool in the bunch it is a Perp who is willing to take a round or two to see if the little 22 will hurt. I bet it does.

Then we come to the reality of the whole scenario. How many of you reading this have ever had to shoot someone? Anyone outside of law enforcement?
 
Posted by Captcurt: If Mr. Bad Guy waltzes up with a knife and you pull a gun, even a 22, Mr. Bad Guy loses provided you have enough guts to pull the trigger.
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Yes, he'll lose, but so might you. You have to stop him from using that knife.

And don't expect a "waltz". Your coming out okay will depend upon your recognizing the danger timely, moving and drawing with great speed, and shooting fast and effectively. You will want something that can do the job.
 
Kleanbore said:
Yes, he'll lose, but so might you. You have to stop him from using that knife.

And don't expect a "waltz". Your coming out okay will depend upon your recognizing the danger timely, moving and drawing with great speed, and shooting fast and effectively. You will want something that can do the job.
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I don't care what caliber that you shoot. If you can't shoot it accurately you are screwed. I would rather see a 22 cal bullet go where it was aimed than have a 45 sail off into thin air. It all boils down to the basics. ACCURACY!!
 
Any gun is better than no gun when you need a gun.... and odds are, she'll be able to become proficient with it very quickly due to the small caliber. Yes, size does matter, but it doesn't matter nearly as much as not having a gun, or having one she can't handle.
 
Captcurt said:
I get so tickled at these forums. Remarks like, "Only a fool would carry a 22 for SD" make me giddy. I guess all women should carry full sized 1911 in 45 ACP or even better a Desert Eagle. Yeah, that should fit her hand.
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No that's ridiculous. But sometimes you need to level with the woman, tell her she's making a poor decision and to stop being a damn fool. There's plenty of choices between a .22 and a 1911 or .44 Mag, but I stand by my earlier post that a .22 semi is a particularly poor choice.
.22 is fine for familiarization with shooting and practice, probably one of the best calibers for that. And a lot of fun for plinking. But that's about where it's usefulness ends.

With all the guys on here that won't leave the house without a full size gun, at least two extra mags, a BUG and a knife, I can't believe how many are defending using a .22.
 
Posted by Capcurt: If you can't shoot it accurately you are screwed. I would rather see a 22 cal bullet go where it was aimed than have a 45 sail off into thin air. It all boils down to the basics. ACCURACY!!
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Yeah. But let's understand what that means. If someone is running at you at fifteen feet per second, and if in the first second and a half all you have been able to do is move and draw, the "accuracy" of which you speak does not connote precision.

You need combat accuracy--you need to hit the torso (or if you happen to be very lucky, a small part of the cranium or the neck).

And the target will not only be moving , it will be pretty darn close.

And hits--hits-- in the torso will only mean something if they happen to hit something vital.

And part of making that happens is penetration.

Also, think bullets, not "bullet".
 
HexHead
<SNIP>With all the guys on here that won't leave the house without a full size gun, at least two extra mags, a BUG and a knife, I can't believe how many are defending using a .22.
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LOL! How did you know???! :D

FWIW, I'm not defending the use of .22LR for self defense. I'm defending the individual right to choose - whether it's 22LR or 357 Sig. Using a 22LR may not be the most informed choice, but a whole lot of other factors go into CC'ing aside from knock down potential of a caliber. Those factors are extremely personal. The OP's GF deciding on CC'ing is a huge first step. Her choice of 22LR may not be great but I can almost guarantee that once started, she'll likely switch to something different.
 
I had a P22 for a couple years. It was a complete jam-o-matic. Probably one failure to feed in every 25 rounds. I tried a bunch of different ammo for it, cleaned it religiously, and tried several lubes. Also, three different mags. Since it was just for the range it didn't matter, except the much rarer failure to extract which takes longer to clear. Maybe once in 100 rounds. I put a thousand or so rounds through it, then sold it and got a Buckmark. Not a practical carry weapon, but it sure helps settle your nerves when you're tired of a larger caliber.

I know this is just one experience, but for a carry weapon you want to be pretty sure it'll go off ten times in a row. If I were to carry a .22, a revolver sounds like a decent idea. It's a shame they don't make a "triple stack" .22 semi auto for self defense. 30 .22 caliber holes would be a lot better than ten!

Good luck finding something for her. I'd get it with the idea it'll be hers if that's at all fiscally possible. No man can serve two masters, and all that.
 
I have never shot anyone, and like all of us, I hope I never ever have to.

I grew up on a farm. We slaughtered and butchered our own beef. What did we use to kill the cow? A .22 LR. Right between the eyes and it was like turning off a light switch, every time but once. One time it took two shots. Shot placement of course was everything.

My cousin's farm that joined ours, he was out and the bull got after him, and he shot it with a .357 Magnum right behind the front leg and just below the shoulder. All he did was make it really really mad. My brother went over to see what was going on and shot the thing in the head and put it down.

So, if placement is critical and penetration important, then a .22 magnum is something to seriously think about. It does not recoil and it can really get down in there. I still prefer a revolver for a rim fire and yes even for center fire, but especially for rim fire.
 
RustyShackelford said:
Id sit down with your sweetheart & watch the Youtube.com clip of The Yankee Marshal of why he does not like the .22LR as a defense round or pistol caliber.
Id suggest she start on a simple stainless steel 2"/3" barrel revolver. Like a S&W J frame 638 or a 442/642(no security lock format). A Wiley Clapp SP101 snub .357magnum or a LCR .38spl could do very well too.
A .38spl SWC-HP can be mild to shoot. Nothing she could not handle & far better than a .22LR. ;)
My first revolver in 09/1993 was a stainless DA only 5 shot .357 magnum SP101. It was robust, easy to clean and never misfired.

As her shooting/gun skills improve she can move on to a .380acp or a .38spl +P.
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I've been shooting and teaching folks to do so for more than 40 years. The absolute last thing I'd recommend for a beginner to CCW (man or woman) is a J-frame-sized revolver. Second to last wold be any .22 that isn't a revolver. My wife doesn't CCW, but is quite good with my Kel-Tec P32 out to 10 yards or so. But then, she's an experienced pistol shot up to .45ACP.
 
md2lgyk said:
I've been shooting and teaching folks to do so for more than 40 years. The absolute last thing I'd recommend for a beginner to CCW (man or woman) is a J-frame-sized revolver. Second to last wold be any .22 that isn't a revolver. My wife doesn't CCW, but is quite good with my Kel-Tec P32 out to 10 yards or so. But then, she's an experienced pistol shot up to .45ACP.
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Ultimately the girlfriend has to go and shoot a few different things. My wife hates my Walther PPK/S in .380. My wife doesn't like the Browning 1911-22LR because it dumps hot little .22 brass down her shirt. My wife doesn't like the Glock 42 we rented either. My wife likes the J-Frame in .22 WMR and in .22 LR. She shot a J-Frame in .38 SPC and said it wasn't bad and liked it better than any of the semi-autos. I am much less concerned about my wife handling a gun that she likes than one she does not like.

My neighbor got his wife a S&W Body Guard in .380 and she hates it and will not go shoot it anymore.

I shot my son-in-laws Ruger LCP and told him I would give it away if it were mine.

The main take away is "to each their own" and the girl friend will have to gain experience.
 
.22 carry

Keep in mind that here in Texas, part of the qualifying process is shooting at a range. The kicker is that the handgun has to be .32 or higher. Get the lady to work with a .32 till she can get some good results to qualify for her CHL. After she is licensed, the best one for her to use is the one she has with her! If she feels best with a .22 then that's great for her. Personal experience tells me that just showing you have protection - a gun - seldom requires sending a bullet down the barrel.

Hope this helped a little......
 
The .22 in your pocket is far better than any .380 at home.

That said, it's a good thing she has taken an interest in shooting and self defense. Let her grow and mature at her own pace. Next thing you know, she'll have moved up to a S&W M&P .45 full frame if she's anything like my wife.
 
Kleanbore,

There's two things you failed to mention about Teddy's assassination attempt.
The first is that the bullet went through a jacket, a steel eye glasses case, a 50 page single folded speech, a vest and a shirt before penetrating his chest. The bullet never reached his lungs.

The second is that John Flammang Schrank made the mistake of attempting to take a Bull Moose with a .32. Never attempt to take a Bull Moose with a .32. :D

Edit to add: Oh, and he also went on to give a 45 minute speech before going to the hospital!
Moral of the story? Just get your girlfriend a Teddy Roosevelt to protect her ;)
 
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