.22 Girlfriend Concealed Carry Conundrum

[RustyShackelford]

J frame revolvers....

If a new shooter or CCW license holder wants to conceal a firearm, then a DA or DAO snub revolver may be the best choice.
New shooters are learning how to shoot & carry a gun.
Id agree that a larger K frame or L frame DA revolver would be better to learn the basics of firearms/tactics but can all new shooters conceal a K frame revolver?
A J frame revolver a CCW holder or armed citizen can carry & shoot in a critical incident is far better than a 9mm or .45acp pistol they left at home because it was impractical or hard to conceal.
People are shooting at human size targets too not 1" squares or bullseye targets 50 yards away. A new shooter can get the basics with proper training & motivation.

Rusty
PS: I think Texas(DPS) does not allow .22LR for CCW quals or class training. You can carry it but it can't be the caliber you qualify for record with.

 

[Kleanbore]

Here is a timely article on the subject.

 

[mboylan]

I had a P22 for a couple years. It was a complete jam-o-matic. Probably one failure to feed in every 25 rounds. I tried a bunch of different ammo for it, cleaned it religiously, and tried several lubes. Also, three different mags. Since it was just for the range it didn't matter, except the much rarer failure to extract which takes longer to clear. Maybe once in 100 rounds. I put a thousand or so rounds through it, then sold it and got a Buckmark. Not a practical carry weapon, but it sure helps settle your nerves when you're tired of a larger caliber.

I know this is just one experience, but for a carry weapon you want to be pretty sure it'll go off ten times in a row. If I were to carry a .22, a revolver sounds like a decent idea. It's a shame they don't make a "triple stack" .22 semi auto for self defense. 30 .22 caliber holes would be a lot better than ten!

Good luck finding something for her. I'd get it with the idea it'll be hers if that's at all fiscally possible. No man can serve two masters, and all that.

You absolutely will not get that kind of placement in a gun fight. If you think that is at all likely then you are a fool. You will probably have to shoot through arms, hands or shoulders to get a hit to the torso and have to do it from a quick draw. You need something that will penetrate to survive.

 

[BigBore45]

penetrate to survive? i have seen x-rays of 40 Smith and Wesson and 9mm not going threw arms and sternum. here you go watch this video for a real look at a fire fight and the aftermath. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tku8YI68-JA

 

[mboylan]

penetrate to survive? i have seen x-rays of 40 Smith and Wesson and 9mm not going threw arms and sternum. here you go watch this video for a real look at a fire fight and the aftermath. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tku8YI68-JA

Yep. What really matters is power and bullet construction. One without the other is not enough. You need both. Choose your self defense cartridge wisely. FBI standards are a minimum. By the way, arms and hands are by far the most common body parts hit in a gun fight.

I carry Critical Duty 220 grain 45 ACP+P for a reason. The bullet has to hold together and have the momentum required to penetrate deep enough after hitting an obstacle.

 

[BigBore45]

back to the post. if she is comfortable with a .22, then start her with one.( test lots of .22 out before buying one) if you study on this, most people that are shot do not even know it. they either run away from the involvement, continue the attack, or die instantly( head or spine shots only). caliber is a miniscule factor in self defense as no one instantly dies from a torso shot( minus spine shots). what does matter is shot placement. so you do damage to the threat and do not hit innocent people in the process. also .22 have the advantage of holding more rounds and having faster follow up shots, along with low noise and flash in low light conditions (very real scenarios in low light). that being said. it is not as powerful and that is not going to help when faced with a bad angled shot. The .22 is best served with 40 gr. CCI fast loads that are round nose, no hollow points. also .22 semi auto guns are among the most unreliable of all guns because it is hard to feed a rimmed case in a semi auto configuration. as far as reliable ammo, cheap stuff does fail to fire or cycle semi autos a lot of time. i have yet to find a cci mini mag act like other poorly manufactured .22lr ammo. also a suggestion is try a revolver in .22 mag. tell her its a .22 and your not lieing.

 

[BigBore45]

Yep. What really matters is power and bullet construction. One without the other is not enough. You need both. Choose your self defense cartridge wisely. FBI standards are a minimum. By the way, arms and hands are by far the most common body parts hit in a gun fight.

I carry Critical Duty 220 grain 45 ACP+P for a reason. The bullet has to hold together and have the momentum required to penetrate deep enough after hitting an obstacle.

i agree that is why i carry a 250 grain hard cast lead bullet in a .45 colt that is going 860+ fps. or if i feel like it a 200 grain hard cast at 998FPS. also a springfield xds with buffalo bore 200 grain +p loads. but most women cannot control this in a concealed carry firearm.

 

[hardknocks!]

22 lr

Cheap small 22lr 9 shot revolver = harrington and richardson with 2 1/2 " barrel.
Not what I carry but it is a deadly weapon.
I have a beretta 21a and shoot cci 40 grain maxi mags. 500 rounds without a failure of any type which is impressive.
Again not what I carry.
The wife don't like guns much and won't even carry any caliber.

 

[Lost Sheep]

First rule of gunfighting - Have a gun. A .22 in her hand is better than one at home.

First rule of happy marriage (and by association, a happy girlfriend) - Give her what she wants. Having said that, ensure she knows all she can know about her available choices.

Towards that end, introduce her to this web site:

www.CorneredCat.com

Owned and written by a woman for women, but 80-90% is applicable to men just as much. Don't try to talk her into anything, but let yourselves be educated together (even though you are probably educated more than she, retracing your early learning is not a bad thing, and doing it with her non-judgementally cements you relationship with her and hers with her gun.)

 

[toivo]

If she's sold on a .22 for a carry pistol, I would recommend a Bersa Thunder over a PPK. The Bersa has a steel slide and aluminum frame. Mine has been very reliable.

 

[browningguy]

Only a fool would use a .22 LR pistol for self defense. Rimfire ammo is unreliable.

Well so much for paying attention to the original post, and having an opinion. It happens to be a wrong opinion but everyone gets to have one, no matter how little thought went into it.

While I would recommend trying a Walther PK380, same frame size and grip shape as the P22, my thoughts on a .22 are below.

If she likes the Walthers that's what I would go with, I don't have a PPK but do have a P22 that has been very reliable. Actually I can't think of a single problem I have had with it, no FTF's or FTE's etc., but I do tend to keep my pistols well cleaned and lubricated.

Load it up with CCI minimags and she will be better armed than the majority of Americans much less the rest of the world. I don't remember ever having a misfire with a minimag in any of my .22's, and I own quite a few.

One of my boxes of .22 pistols, I don't have a pic of the other box, but I shoot enough .22 I think I have at least a reasonable basis for an opinion.

 

[goathollow]

I am going to side with the folks who are encouraging you to go ahead with the .22. For all the reasons (real or perceived) that have been given. The important thing is to get her started. My wife of 29 years just started shooting pistols a couple of years ago and she just plain doesn't like the recoil of anything larger than the .22. We've tried .380; 9mm and 38 Special and all scare her. As a result she flinches so badly she can't hit anything. So, since anything is better than nothing, she has her choice of a P22 or a Beretta Bobcat. She prefers the Bobcat and is remarkably accurate with it given it has no rear sight (per se).

Sure, a .22 isn't going to stop a drug fueled nut job with one shot but most bad guys in these parts tend to shy from ANY gun. She can get off several shots accurately in quick succession so I'm just happy she's chosen to have it with her.

As for reliability we've shot a lot of ammo through that little gun and I can't recall it ever not firing. Yeah..I admit it...I think its kind fun too, I've even carried it a time or two when having something else larger wasn't practical)

 

[Mastrogiacomo]

To the OP, Chris, I always feel if a woman is too insecure to carry a real gun with a true self defense load, they're better off not getting a firearm in the first place. Guns aren't toys...and walking around with a target gun isn't going to do her any good, and a .22 is just that - a target gun. While I have carried a .38, I mainly carry a 9mm and I won't look at anything smaller for defense purposes.

You need to show her some of the links on this thread to illustrate why target loads don't work for self defense. Maybe all she really should be spending money on is Mace and a kick boxing class?

Laura

 

[Great Scot]

I thinks it's rather insulting to tell someone they shouldn't bother carrying if all they can shoot accurately and with confidence is a .22. My wife carries a NAA Pug and she knows how to use it and is as determined and willing to use it to defend herself and my kids as any as gunshop commando sporting is .45 Les Baer. I've offered her other guns with larger calibers, but she politely declines and says she likes her .22.

I will steadfastly maintain that 5-10 .22s in the chest and face is more effective than a hatful of .380s or 9mms that are getting sprayed all over god and creation. In the end, it's the person behind the trigger, not the gun.

 

[Mastrogiacomo]

You won't find one authoritative source on firearms from Mas Ayoob to Chuck Hawkins that would tell you a .22 is a defense round. It's not. Years ago in Chinatown Boston, a female cop hit the streets on her first day on the job. She recognized a perp and was tackled and shot with her own gun. He missed, but her partner hit him with a .40 and he was still fighting the paramedics when they took him in. A .22 against a person with a lot of rage will have no impact. People who are afraid of guns shouldn't be carrying. Either you carry a gun or play with a toy, but you don't carry a toy and expect to be safe. Mace and a good martial art instructor will get her further than a target gun.

Laura

 

[Great Scot]

I can't change your mind, but I do have to ask, what if we are talking about older man or woman or an individual whose is handicapped and is incapable of physically training to the point of defending themselves. A .22 or .25 may be all they can handle and would definitely be a lifesaver.

Furthermore, Chuck Taylor, also an expert, has said that mouse guns have a place when used properly. The example he gave was a nurse, knocked down on her back and stuffing a .25 into her attackers face and unloading the gun. Even Jeff Cooper, the godfather of modern pistol fighting, advocated that people purchase a .22 ppk for family use because it's fun to shoot and could be pressed into the role of personnel protection for someone who doesn't have lots of experience.

 

[Great Scot]

"You should really be using something bigger than a .22 for self-defense, but even a .22 beats nothing. There are some really nice .22 pocket autos and NAA mini-revolvers, and they make sense for special situations or women reluctant to tote a bigger gun around. Choose any Federal, Remington, Winchester or CCI copper-plated 37 grain (or lighter) high velocity hollowpoint round. I recommend CCI "Stinger" 32 grain or Remington "Yellow Jacket" 33 grain hollowpoints, as they have been very reliable in my Beretta 21A and Walther TPH pistols and have the highest stopping power ratings." Chuck Hawks

"I don’t see any .22 LR as a dedicated self-defense gun, unless the shooter’s hands and wrists are physically debilitated, and in that case the shooter might want a gun with a lighter trigger pull. At the same time, in a life-threatening emergency, eight rounds of high speed .22 LR would beat heck out of a can of pepper spray." - Mas Ayoob

 

[Onward Allusion]

You won't find one authoritative source on firearms from Mas Ayoob to Chuck Hawkins that would tell you a .22 is a defense round.

Aside from what was already posted, those two are not newbies. Sometimes folks who have experience under their belt forget that people have to start somewhere. If the lady has half a brain, she will switch to a larger caliber for carry once she gets used to carrying and shooting. If not, she will still be carrying a 22LR and even that is better than no gun. Not everyone can or should start out carrying a 357 Mag (just as an example).

 

[Mastrogiacomo]

Yet, if a woman insists that she won't use a caliber higher than a .22, I have to ask, is she the one who wants to buy a gun, or is the boyfriend the one pushing it? If she's not interesting in carrying, she shouldn't. There's a lot of gun shops that push garbage on women, giving them a false sense of security. Something is better than nothing, but I wouldn't use a .22 to defend anyone I loved.

Laura

 

[toivo]

Mace and a good martial art instructor will get her further than a target gun.

I agree that larger calibers are more appropriate, but I have to challenge that statement. In a match-up of a martial artist with a can of Mace and a competent shooter with ten rounds of .22, I'll bet on the .22 every time.

 

[Webologist]

Be thankful she's considering carrying a firearm and isn't opposed to them. Recognizing that you're entering perilous waters is important. Your attempts to guide her into something she hasn't chosen herself is likely to lead to resentment and her hating the weapon you pushed her into. (been there and my wife is happily carrying a .357 now)

The ladies forum on CalGuns has guidance/rants from a woman's perspective you may want to review before charging headlong into something you may both regret...

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=357584

 

[CMC]

I think your girfriend has the right mindset.
A 22 lr with mini mags is very effective.
I Personally reccomend the walther or the ruger 22 pistols for ladies.
I had the wife's of a couple friends in my hunting lease come by and ask for my opinion since I am always test firing guns at our range/camp as they want another opinion besides their husband.
A young Lady insisted she wanted a small 380 even after shooting my Walther p22 , she also shot my 1911 Commander 45 very well.
Well she did buy the Smith bodyguard 380 and ended up selling because the recoil was too much, sold that and bought a sig 938 9mm compact and I dont think she likes it but she havent told me .
Her Father in law that is on the lease also has a Walther p22 he told me he is going to tell her she can have if she wants.
A small/petite lady at work just went to a defensive handgun class and after shooting a bunch of handguns including the Glock 19 reccomended by her husband decided the Ruger Sr 22 is the one want she wants.
Just because you think a big caliber is all you are willing to carry does not mean anything else is no good for someone else.
A 22 in the soft spot( lung shot) is as good as any other caliber.
If you are old and frail or a small person and can shoot it well , it maybe your only option.
I myself carry a 22 magnum from north american arms when it is hot and all I can wear is shorts and a tank top.

 

[Artym]

When I was a young teenager, a friend of mine came up to a group of our friends who were talking in front of the local luncheonette. He told us some kids tried to take his bike away. He was tough and a good fighter. He beat them up, and walked more than a block to tell us about it. While talking, someone noticed blood on his shirt. He looked down,,saw the blood, and fainted. Until someone told him he was shot, he didn't know. It was a 22. It didn't penetrate the rib cage. I can't tell you if it was a 22 short, long, or LR, but he didn't even know that he was shot, perhaps 5 or 10 min after it happened.

 

[MedWheeler]

Mastrogiocomo (Laura) writes:

Years ago in Chinatown Boston, a female cop hit the streets on her first day on the job. She recognized a perp and was tackled and shot with her own gun. He missed, but her partner hit him with a .40 and he was still fighting the paramedics when they took him in.

An irrelevant analogy, as are most involving law enforcement situations. Besides, it contradicts itself (how could she have been shot with her own gun if the perp missed?) On top of that, it shows that the .40 failed as well. Perhaps a more well-placed shot (maybe even with a .22LR) would have been more effective?

LEOs are required to maintain the fight, further building rage (your word) in those they've shot or are otherwise fighting. This female LEO would not have been tackled and shot (at?) had she not approached and tried to detain the perp she "recognized." It was her presumed duty to do so.

I highly doubt the OP's girlfriend intends to instill such rage in people she meets walking down the sidewalk.

Given that estimates of DGUs per year incidents in the US run from one quarter to three quarters of a million, I'd place money that a couple of thousand involve rimfire pistols. I'd be hard-pressed to call any of their users fools. I cannot remember ever finding a story on one in which the following applied:

1) The victim was targeted by an attacker who had no predisposition (such as "a beef") to assuring this particular victim's death/rape/injury.
2) The victim was able to effectively deploy and present their weapon.
3) The attacker continued their advance or attack.
4) The victim fired his or her weapon.
5) The attacker continued their advance or attack.
6) The victim was subsequently killed or seriously injured by the attacker.
7) It can be proven that such death or injury would not have happened had the victim, under the same conditions, deployed a gun chambered in .380ACP, .38 Special, or 9mm Luger caliber.

 

[JTQ]

22 Girlfriend Concealed

Don't do it man, no matter how hard you try to conceal her, your wife will find out about your 22 year old girlfriend.

Oh, wait, that isn't what this thread is about. Sorry.