22 Magnum: HP or Solid for Self Defense?

[Aristides]

I just bought a Ruger Single Six with 5 1/2" barrell. I plan to use the 22 LR cyclinder primarily for target practice and small game. But when stored in my drawer at home, I will have the Magnum cylinder in place, and it will serve as home defense backup. Yes, I have heavier weapons as primary self defense, so don't go down that road. I just want to know your opinion on the most effective 22 magnum self defense ammo for this revolver, and my primary question is whether I should use HP or Solid.

Taking CCI as an example, they have a Solid Flat Nose and an HP in the same loading. Will the HP give adequate penetration from a 5 1/2" revolver barrell? Or should I go with the Solid Flat Nose to ensure enough penetration? I'm a believer that penetration is most important, and in my pocket gun (Tomcat 32 acp) I use FMJ for that reason. But maybe 1400 fps is fast enough to give adequate penetration with the HP, so I don't need solid...? What do you think?

Also...edit...if you have an opinion, please explain your reasoning as best you can...I'm curious to know WHY you think one is better than the other. Thanks.

 

[Stonestacker]

I'm curious about opinions on this myself. If I could add one to your list, how about .22 mag. with ballistic tip?

 

[PA Freedom]

Im very interested in hearing what others have to say, also. Ive also used a Ruger S/S with .22 Mag for protection back when thats the only handgun I owned. FWIW, I chose hollowpoints, but fortunately never had to shoot anyone.

 

[sm]

Solid.

Be this a .22 lr, or .22 mag.

 

[wnycollector]

Either will do the trick if you put your shots in the right place. Here is some ballistic gel testing on both JHP and FMJ http://www.brassfetcher.com/22WMR.html

 

[VA27]

With a handgun it doesn't matter which you use. Pick which ever is most accurate in your gun.

 

[novalty]

For 22 Mag I can't really see a big expansion factor on going to a JHP, but can't say it would hurt to go with a good round like a Hornady Vmax.

Just my $.02

 

[Kind of Blued]

Solids.

The chance of you needing a backup home defense weapon are about as likely as your home being invaded by criminals wearing body armor, in which case you'll want the solids.

 

[mgkdrgn]

Solid point

Not enough velocity to get the HP to work well.

You can get 12+ inches of penetration of ballistic gel out of a 22mag solid out of a VERY short barrel pistol.

22mag can be a right nasty little cartridge ... my daily carry in an NAA Black Widow.

 

[Kindrox]

Do the HPs even expand, or are they like the .22 "hollow points" that don't?

 

[woad_yurt]

Solid. I would want all the penetration I could get out of it.

 

[kludge]

Revolver and Solids for Rimfire.

 

[mgkdrgn]

Do the HPs even expand, or are they like the .22 "hollow points" that don't?

They -will- out of a rifle, but not likely out of a pistol. Just a weeee bit too slow.

 

[CWL]

For such a small bit of lead, you want solid for as much penetration as possible. No use having a bullet expand if it doesn't penetrate into any major organs or CNS areas.

 

[m2steven]

I shoot loads of 22 mags and 17 hrm's. They are "real" cartridges and will do plenty of damage if aimed at the sternum, head and neck area. Also, shots to the stomach and intestines will do lots of damage. I've done phone book and the milk-jug with water tests and i've found that the high quality magnums(22) WILL expand after hitting water from a 3 inch barrel. The bullet is so small that the expansion is not much.

However, the penetration of the 22mag is undeniable. After hitting iron targets with it I can say that I certainly would not want to be hit with one. It would not knock a person down, but it would most likely stop them if you hit a vital area or fired 2 or 3 rounds and hit the center mass. Based upon my
personal experience - a 45 or 44 mag or 357 would be 'knock down' rounds.
9mm can be a knockdown round and certainly a killing/disabling round. I personally prefer the 9mm because of it's hitting power and my ability to place 8 or 10 right where I need to. I'm going to maybe get one chance with the 357 or 45. After that it's a crap shoot. There are experts for which this does not apply of course.

As to the 17hmr - they will tear you up. Again, even if they expand, they might go right through a human body. But if you've ever seen what they do to animal flesh, it's pretty bad. Plus, they are so fast that if you're a good marksman - your target will not have time to get out of the way and recoil is nill (muzzle flash and noise is another story).

The difference between the 22mag and 22lr is night and day.

 

[David E]

Hollow points or expanding bullets.

Why? Because @ 1750 fps, it should do just fine.

Penetration? How much do you really need? The heart is 2-3 inches inside the ribs on most folks. I want as much disruption as possible. I'd also practice my face/neck shots.

If it doesn't expand, you're right where you were with the solid points.

 

[george29]

This type of thread pops up every so often so do a search.

Here's my useless opinion. If all hand guns were to be confiscated, allowing for the ownership of but one handgun (yes, we have had this thread a dozen times too), my choice would be my Ruger Single-Six with interchangeable cylinder.

A .22 magnum has power way beyond it's size and you really don't want to take on the person who can shoot one well.

As I write this my 642 is in my pocket and my SBH under my pillow, so I wouldn't use the very wonderful Single-Six as my first choice if others were available but I have a few non-gunner friends who do own the little Ruger for defense. FWIW, I would even trust my life with the .22LR if that's all I had.

 

[george29]

a 45 or 44 mag or 357 would be 'knock down' rounds.
9mm can be a knockdown round and certainly a killing/disabling round.

Don't kid yourself, there is no such thing as a knockdown round in any normal handgun round.
if I shot you with a .45/70 or a 10 gauge maybe.
Also, don't even think that a dozen 9mm's will always incapacitate a determined opponent.

 

[B yond]

I say HP if you can find some with a deep cavity. I carry CCI TNT HPs in my MiniMag when I carry it.

I figure if I'm lucky it will expand, and if not I'm no worse off than a solid point.

 

[B yond]

Penetration? How much do you really need? The heart is 2-3 inches inside the ribs on most folks. I want as much disruption as possible. I'd also practice my face/neck shots.

What if they're not squared up to you, or the face/neck is not an option? What if the only available shot is through the shoulder towards the chest? This is why the FBI requires 15" of penetration for their ammo (IIRC- I may be off by an inch or two).

I still think a .22 Mag HP would penetrate enough to at least change an attacker's behavior, and I would expect more than 2-3 inches out of one.

Does anyone have any penetration data for various .22 Mag offerings?

 

[B yond]

found a penetration test!

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=4395228

It looks like you can expect 11" or so from a HP and maybe a few more inches from a FMJ. I'll stick with my HP. I like the possibility of making a bigger hole over the possibility of (over)penetrating an inch or two more.

 

[crushbup]

Solid with the widest meplat you can get.

It looks like you can expect 11" or so from a HP and maybe a few more inches from a FMJ. I'll stick with my HP. I like the possibility of making a bigger hole over the possibility of (over)penetrating an inch or two more.

11" of ballistics gel is not quite the same as 11" of human body. Bones, muscle, cartilage, etc. get in the way of the bullet. By no means is 12-18 inches in BG "overpenetration." Your bigger hole is no help if it stops short of the CNS. Even a shot that perfectly destroys the heart will give your goblin 15 seconds of conscious thought to shoot back in.

 

[David E]

What if they're not squared up to you, or the face/neck is not an option? What if the only available shot is through the shoulder towards the chest? This is why the FBI requires 15" of penetration for their ammo (IIRC- I may be off by an inch or two).

then why are you shooting them? If you can't see their face/neck or even head, why do they require the immediate application of deadly force?

The FBI based their 12" minimum penetration on their abysmal failure in the 1986 Miami shootout. A 9mm Silvertip penetrated an arm before entering the thoracic cavity, stopping just short of the heart. Even tho is was an unsurvivable wound, it did not stop the guy and more agents died as a result.

The FBI blamed the bullet so as to deflect focus on their horrible tactics and execution of the entire episode. This resulted in their 12" minium penetration guideline. (Theory being, "if only that round had penetrated 3-4 more inches, lives would've been saved...")

Personally, I want more than 3-4 inches of penetration, but in reality, for the face-on shots on normal people, it should be fine.

 

[B yond]

By no means is 12-18 inches in BG "overpenetration."

Dang dawg, how big are you?!?

Seriously though, I consider anything that goes through the BG to be overpenetration. This is why I prefer to carry big, heavy, slow calibers. I want my SD ammo to hit the BG like a truck, dump all its kinetic energy by the time it has passed about 3/4 of the way through Mr. BG, and leave a massive entrance wound with no exit.

When I have to I'll settle for a .22 mag HP that *should* penetrate at least half way (hopefully more) and leave a nice jagged wound as the jacket peels back upon entrance. The reasoning here is to create rapid blood loss in the event that the CNS is not hit, hopefully incapacitating the threat quickly.

Personally, I want more than 3-4 inches of penetration, but in reality, for the face-on shots on normal people, it should be fine.

face-on shots on normal people

I didn't know we only need to defend ourselves from 'normal' people who are squared-up with us...

If you can't see their face/neck or even head, why do they require the immediate application of deadly force?

I didn't realize a BG wasn't a threat unless you could see their face/neck.

I guess you learn something every day. :banghead:

 

[David E]

I didn't realize a BG wasn't a threat unless you could see their face/neck.

Then perhaps you could cite a reasonable example that addresses the question I asked:

"If you can't see their face/neck or even head, why do they require the immediate application of deadly force?"

Instead of mocking, maybe you could answer the question the first time around......