.22 Pistol advice

[davera]

Hi all,
I'm in the market for a .22 pistol and I've done some research and some looking but would appreciate any and all advice on what to buy.
Here are some of my criteria:
1.) I want an autoloader - nothing against a revolver, I'll probably have one eventually but I just like a pistol.
2.) Reliable (relatively troublefree)
3.) Accurate (although I will concede most pistols will be more accurate than me)
4.) Conventional control set.
5.) An external hammer would be nice.

I've looked at the Rugers and Buckmarks and lean towards the Buckmark because the Rugers just do not appeal to me in look and feel. The only shortcoming is not having an external hammer.

I saw the CZ Kadet in their catalog and it meets all my criteria but I have not held or shot one. (a friend has an IMI Jericho that has a similar feel to the CZ-75, I've shot that and like it well enough)

The CZ75 with a Kadet conversion is very appealing because I get two guns for the price of one and one half . Is the CZ75's hammer functional when the conversion is used? I saw a picture and was unclear on this question.

Others up for consideration; a Trailside or a S&W M41 (pricy but I am willing to spend for quality)

I currently have a SIG P228 that I like a lot, I've shot the Jericho and like it as the "hunk o' steel" type and shot a CZ 97 that was pretty nice.

Thanks for all opinions and advice.

 

[Tropical Z]

Beretta Neos probably wouldnt fit the bill,but mine is the only .22lr ive owned that has been 100% reliable from round one.Another great choice (if you can find one) would be a FEG SMC-22 which does meet your requirements and is a truly wonderful Makarov sized .22lr

 

[Tropical Z]

A company like Zanders or Lew Horton may stock the FEG.Maybe an FFL here will know.

 

[cobb]

I am really partial to the Buckmark, I own 3 in different configurations and have been really happy with them over the years. The original reason I went with the Buckmark was because the controls where in the same location as the 1911, so easier to operate for me. I owned a S&W 41 for awhile and had so many problems with it, I used it for trade when I got my 3rd Buckmark. Like I said, my original consideration was the similar layout of the 1911 and it's safety, mag release, and slide catch, the mag release on the Ruger MKII eliminated it.

 

[10-Ring]

My personal fav is the Ruger Mk II. That said, if the hammer is an important aspect, check out the Walther P22. I've been contemplating one to complement my poly-gun collection.

 

[Sprout]

The hammer on the CZ is functional, as is the decocker/safety on the frame (depending on which model).

My CZ with the kadet is a magic sword. Everybody who tries it shoots well with it: my girlfriend with tiny hands who had never shot before, friends with big hands, little gangsta kids I've let shoot it at the range.

The trigger is a little long for my girlfriend, but she was still putting them all in a 3" Shoot 'n See from 21' never having held a gun in her life. The .22 practice translated nicely when we swapped slides for the 9 too.

Can you tell I'm proud

 

[yzguy]

try holding a Ruger 22/45 (if you have not already) the controls are in a more normal place...

 

[philhir]

Browning Buckmark

 

[cratz2]

I have no doubt that the Kadet would serve very well in that capacity but I personally wouldn't expect it to be 100%. Not saying this as a warning, just generally I don't expect conversions to be completely reliable.

I guess I'm one of the few that can live with a 22 pistol that isn't 100% reliable. If I bought a MKII or a BuckMark and shot up a brick of ammo and it had 10 or 20 failures, that wouldn't concern me in the least. I've owned MKIIs, S&W 22A, Phoenix Arms, a Beretta and a Taurus and have shot countless others. in general, the guns that cost over $200 or thereabouts are at least 99% reliable. My MKII and S&W have never failed ever! I've owned two Phoenix Arms HP22s that I might have had two failures with and a friend that has another one that has shot a bunch of times with very few failures.

These are barely $100-$200 guns. If they have a couple jams, clear 'em and keep shooting. It's not like you're betting your life on it... are you?

 

[BHP9]

Different thought, Different route

Have you ever considered buying a high quality classic used gun?

The older Smith Target automatics have a very big following and to my knowledg are still being made today but they are not of the same quality and finish as the older models.

You might also buy a used Browning Nomad, or Challenger or Medalist. They had tounge and grove slides that you will not find on the Buck Mark guns. The Nomand, Challenger, Medalist also had high quality forged steel frames and knock out finish and workmanship that is largely unmatched in any of todays current .22's.

I have seen mint used Nomads sell for as little as $200 dollars and as high as $400 but even at the higher price they are a steal considering the fantasic quality gun that they are.

Don't make the classic mistake of thinking that somehow newer is better, in most cases it is not. It takes a little patience and time but in the end you will have a work of art, not just the lastest machine made of aluminum, plastic or stamped sheet metal to shoot ammo out of.

 

[Matt Sutton]

Buckmarks and Rugers are proven designs. I've had both, but ended up selling the Buckmark Micro after a few months. I hated the fact that the Buckmark couldn't be cleaned from the breech without removing the barrel from the frame. I also had problems with the rear hex screw shooting loose. There were just too many screws set in aluminium for my taste. Then there were the cheap plastic parts in the bolt.
Once I discovered and properly adjusted the Ruger's built in overtravel screw, it's trigger was better than the buckmark's. I sold the Buckmark and never looked back. If I could do it over again, I would buy another Ruger.

 

[provalov]

And another vote for the Ruger 22/45. It is basically the Mark II with a 1911 grip angle. I chose the 22/45 because of the similarities to the controls on my automatic pistols.

 

[Kahr carrier]

Buckmark or Mk-2 you cant go wrong with those .

 

[Thirties]

Davera, I would encourage you to get the CZ-75/85 with the Kadet Kit.

The Kit not only uses the same hammer, butindeed the same frame, trigger, magazine release, etc. you very simply replace the slide -- it's that easy.

Kit comes with adjustable rear sight (very good), and is exactly like shooting your 9mm CZ. Accuracy is on par with target .22 pistols, Weight and feel are identical to the CZ-75/85 guns.

 

[Pilot]

I concur. CZ-75/85 and Kadet Kit.

 

[BHP9]

I do not recommend conversion kits for serious shooting and here is why

Although many people who plink like the novelty of conversion kits they always take a big back seat in accuracy due to the fact that you have a barrel that was not hand fitted to the weapon at the factory coupled with the fact that with many conversion kits the barrel can move to a degree due to the fact the tolerances must be kept loose enough for a drop in fit.

Contrast this with the gun that was designed to be a .22 from the ground up. In these weapons the barrel is often fixed as in the Ruger or it is at least fitted tightly and or immobilized as in the Smith Auto's,Browning Auto's , High Standard etc. etc.

Conversion kits are not heavy barrels and this is another factor that makes them take a back seat to the heavy barreled .22 target arm in terms of inherent accuracy.

Many current .22 target arms are coming drilled and tapped from the factory for the addition of electronic sights (these days an absolute must if one is engaged in competition) while most stock center fire military style pistols do not have this feature and they are the ones more than likely to be used with conversion kits.

Conversion kits are often used in stock firearms that are not built with competition type triggers, while many heavy barrel .22's come with at least fairly decent target triggers. Also if the trigger pull is not light enough often aftermarket kits are available at reasonable prices that upgrade the trigger mechanisms without resorting to sending a stock full size handgun to the custom gunsmith for a trigger job. The Ruger aftermarket accessories often come to mind.

Conversion kits are fine for saving money or used as novelty items or plinking but you won't find anyone competing in a serious match with a conversion kit. This alone is proof enough as to the superiority of built from the ground .22 autoloader v/s a conversion kit.

It all boils down to what you are going to use the weapon for. Saving money for a weapon to be used plinking on a Sunday afternoon or a weapon designed for maximum accuracy and or serious competition.

A persons own personal application need and financial reserves will determine which weapon is best for him.

 

[Thirties]

BHP9, perhaps you didn't remember what the original poster was looking for:

"I'm in the market for a .22 pistol and I've done some research and some looking but would appreciate any and all advice on what to buy.
Here are some of my criteria:
1.) I want an autoloader - nothing against a revolver, I'll probably have one eventually but I just like a pistol.
2.) Reliable (relatively troublefree)
3.) Accurate (although I will concede most pistols will be more accurate than me)
4.) Conventional control set.
5.) An external hammer would be nice."

I don't think "...a weapon designed for maximum accuracy and or serious competition" is what the gentleman has in mind.

 

[VictorLouis]

BHP9,

I have seen mint used Nomads sell for as little as $200 dollars and as high as $400 but even at the higher price they are a steal considering the fantasic quality gun that they are.

Don't forget to mention the bargain price of $100 for spare mags! That is, if you can find them.

but you won't find anyone competing in a serious match with a conversion kit.

Hmmmmm........www.marvelprecision.com

 

[Pilot]

BHP9 wrote:

"I do not recommend conversion kits for serious shooting and here is why

Although many people who plink like the novelty of conversion kits they always take a big back seat in accuracy due to the fact that you have a barrel that was not hand fitted to the weapon at the factory coupled with the fact that with many conversion kits the barrel can move to a degree due to the fact the tolerances must be kept loose enough for a drop in fit."

I beg to differ sir. The Kadet Kit for the CZ-75/85 line of pistols is a purpose built, fixed barrel, blowback design that is very accurate and reliable. Also, the Marvel unit for 1911's is used for Bullseye competition by many. It is also a fixed barrel, blowback design and very accurate. Both the Kadet Kit and Marvel conversion are serious .22's capable of target accuracy. I have both and have realized if I wanted I could sell my Rugers and Benelli and be happy.

 

[BHP9]

Don't forget to mention the bargain price of $100 for spare mags! That is, if you can find them.

Two weeks ago I picked up a mint spare mag for $25.00. Sure some may ask that amount . But most that I have found were more in the tune of $50 to $75.00, but even at that price you still have a gun that is a work of art and will have extremely high resale value should you ever need to sell it.

 

[BHP9]

I beg to differ sir. The Kadet Kit for the CZ-75/85 line of pistols is a purpose built, fixed barrel, blowback design that is very accurate and reliable. Also, the Marvel unit for 1911's is used for Bullseye competition by many. It is also a fixed barrel, blowback design and very accurate. Both the Kadet Kit and Marvel conversion are serious .22's capable of target accuracy. I have both and have realized if I wanted I could sell my Rugers and Benelli and be happy.

I suppose you and I have had differing experiences but at our club which is comprised of near 1,000 members the people using conversion kits are about as scarce as hens teeth with the custom modified Ruger being the entry level gun followed by a pethora of experienced S&W users, with the remaining using original High Standards and a few using the high end European prestige guns like the Hammerli's.

 

[davera]

Thanks for the advice

It will likely come down to the CZ75 with Kadet conversion as it satisfies most of my requirements.

For BHP9, I hear what you are saying about conversions, this pistol will be general purpose, mainly for training and plinking.

If I ever took up serious competition (and I might do so one day) and the Kadet was not suitable I wouldn't hesitate to get something more suitable, funds permitting.

 

[TheMariner]

Alright, I'd agree with most here that a Ruger mk II is a good plinker... Decent sights and excellent durability. However, I find the government bull barrels to be too front heavy.

Another good plinker is the OLD, but still good S&W model 41. Heavy, but incredibily durable, accurate, and a piece of cake to break down and clean.

If you want something more in line with a combat style pistol, the 41 or a P22 would both be excellent choices. While the 41 is heavy and durable, the P22 is light as a feather in comparison, but will give a kick until you break her in off the hi-velocity stuff.

Other models I've seen around but really, for simplicity's sake, a Ruger Mk I or II (government models don't really differ from their "civilian" counterparts) or a S&W 41 are more than adequate for your needs.

 

[PCRCCW]

Ill jump in here for a second or two. I grew up and cut my teeth on Ruger Mk 1's and 2's, High standards, Brownings etc......
The CZ Kadet gun and conversion as at least as accurate as the many Ive shot, owned and tortured. Takedown is simpler than any of them and reliability is easily better than any Ruger Ive seen.....I would HIGHLY recommend a Kadet for what you want.
Shoot well

 

[Pilot]

"I suppose you and I have had differing experiences but at our club which is comprised of near 1,000 members the people using conversion kits are about as scarce as hens teeth with the custom modified Ruger being the entry level gun followed by a pethora of experienced S&W users, with the remaining using original High Standards and a few using the high end European prestige guns like the Hammerli's."

Well maybe not as much difference as you think. I agree with most of what you say about what is popular for competition. Yes the Pardini's and Hammerli's and other "high-end" .22's will out shoot the Kadet Kit or Marvel. However, neither are "novelties" just used to shoot cheaper than the larger bore counterparts. I'm not suggesting they will out shoot these expensive target pistols or even modified Rugers which I also own, but they are good, accurate shooters in their own right. With the Kadet and Marvel units I find my Rugers sit and my Benelli goes a bit less than it used too.