.22 Ruger for self-defense?

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His dying hours, or a full day later won't be much comfort to you though if he already killed you.

it is true that there is a chance you wont stop him in his tracks.

it wouldnt surprise me if 90 something percent of the people that recieve a non mortal just dont feel they need your wallet anymore, and decide that since they are leaking, they would rather just bug out.

no doubt there are better calibers. but i just feel like if you take one to the head, your going down, right then, and right there.

even if you take one in the chest, good chance its over.

even being shot 2 1/4" above your naval with a 22 makes you think you are going to die, and from what ive learned, feels like a couple pounds of ready to cook kingsford has just been surgically placed in your gut.

like i said, there are better options, but if you ever take a 22, good luck standing up for even 5 more seconds.
 
ScareyH22A said:
First of all, .22LR's are not really reliable...
I agree (notwithstanding FlyinBryan's claim). First, it's partly the nature of a rimfire cartridge. On occasion the primer compound doesn't get evenly distributed.

Second, it's just the nature of trying to feed a rimed cartridge from a magazine. Rimless cartridges tend to be better suited to the functioning of an auto-loader.
 
not true.

many are as reliable as any other caliber firearm.

try a browning.

Buckmark? Are you serious? I've seen plenty of Buckmarks as well as Ruger Marks FTE and FTF their rounds. Sometimes the cartridge will have had a hit but failed to fire. Again... .22LR's are not exactly reliable.

If I was to have a FTE or FTF or even just a light strike and hard primer on my USP, I'd remember that day forever.
 
.22 revolver probably would work every time. I've used rimless autos that won't eject well. Yes, .22s can have problems. So can any gun. That's why you test it for reliability.

As for .22 killing but not stopping. That's why I said practice your headshots. The smaller the projectile, the more accurate you have to be. You need to practice to hit targets much smaller than a human silhouette regardless of caliber, but with a .22 it becomes especially important.

I would hope the bad guy looks down and sees his wound and goes away, or sits down and starts praying he'll live. But, he also might be hopped up on a drug, or drunk, or just tough and mean.

Any which way, I'd go with atleast a 9mm. But, .22 is better than hand-to-hand combat.
 
Like others have said a .22 will work but its far from ideal. But then again if its for HOME defense I would look at something else besides a handgun to begin with.

From my experiences as an officer handguns suck as a defensive weapon. You carry it because of ease not because its tremendously effective. One of our recent bad guys took 2 .45 ACP rounds through COM and still had to be chased down and arrested. He was then walked to the ambulance and taken to the hospital. His wounds were very serious and was very close to death.

Theres a reason why they say over 80 percent of people shot with a handgun live and over 80 percent of people shot with a long gun die.

^^^ Probably not terribly accurate but its generally true.
 
:evil:
From my experiences as an officer handguns suck as a defensive weapon. You carry it because of ease not because its tremendously effective. One of our recent bad guys took 2 .45 ACP rounds through COM and still had to be chased down and arrested. He was then walked to the ambulance and taken to the hospital. His wounds were very serious and was very close to death.

was he found to be on drugs? (meth, pcp, etc?) i hear these stories and they're wild. on the other hand, i also read an article about a little girl who killed a kodiak bear with a .22 :evil: (talk about a lucky shot! she must've shot it in the eye or something)

however, i'd bet that for every one of these stories you recount, there are 10 where the bad guy is shot once COM with a 9mm, .40, or .45 and stopped instantly. :eek:
 
Look up the Perry Stevens/George Temple incident.

The almighty .45 failed to make an impression on the perp untill he was shot in the head while he was still fixated on beating the officer to death.

A bullet, even a .45 bullet is not going to stop an attack unless it hits something vital. A .22 in the hands of a shooter who is really good with it, is as good as many other choices. The man behind the gun is what makes the difference, not the piece of hardware. Who would you rather face; a punk gangbanger with a tech 9 or Bob Mundan with a .22 Ruger?

For a first hand gritty account of what it was like to be shot in the face by a .22 pistol, read the first chapter or two of Frank Serpico's book. He very barely lived through the experiance, and was taken down imediately.

To the original poster; A .22 Ruger will do just fine, if you do your part. Practice like a mad obsessed person, with at least weekly if not twice weekly visits to the range. Get to know, really know the gun, and pratice with a wider range of shooting conditions. One very clear advantage of a .22 is, you will be able to expend thousands of rounds of ammo with very little hardship to your wallet. You will have almost zero recoil, and in the space of the next year, you will turn into a far better shot than if you go center fire over the next year.

Is the .22 a good choice for a self defense gun? While not the best choice, It's not a bad choice either considering the adavntages. As for people making comments that a .22 is little better than a sharp stick, or somebody will take it away from you and stick it up where the sun won't shine, their idiots. I've seen 5 people shot by a .22 in my life. three of them were attacking somebody and they got shot for thier pains. All three were out of action, with one of them curled up in a fetal position making whimpering noises, a second was sitting on his rear end agaist a building moaning that he needed an abmulance, and a third had his arm hanging down by his side and was making sure it didn't move because it hurt like hell.

But the thing that stayed with me for my life, was the memory of seeing a heavy set man with a large hunting knife coming at a man, put down by three shots from a Colt Woodsman.

I was 10 years old at the time. My father had taken us to the montains on a summer get away, and we had stopped at a picnic ground just outside of Front Royal Virgina. We were at a table having luch when three men came out of the woods, and came in our direction. They were dirty down at the heels bums, and they asked my dad for some beer money. My father was polite but firm, and told them to leave. One of them got closer and started yelling at my dad that how come he has a nice shiney new Pontiac but can't spare a few bucks. Started calling him some pretty bad names. Dad told him again to leave. This was the 1950's, and there was no cell phones to call the cops.

The man took out a large knife from a sheath at his belt and took a step toward dad. Dad took out the .22 Woodsman he carried when we were on a trip or hiking in the woods. The man kept advacing on my dad, cursing him and saying he din't have guts to shoot. Dad stopped warning him and shot him. The shot made the man stop for a second and hunch up a bit, then he again came toward dad with the knife. Dad shot two more times and the man doubled over then fell on his side, pulling his knees up to his stomach and screaming that his guts were on fire. Over the course of a minute, he grew quiet, and went unconcious. Some others from the picnic ground went down the road to a gas station where they called the police and an ambulance. By the time they got there, the man was dead. He hadn't moved or made a sound since he went down.

Because there was lots of witnesses, it was ruled self defense, and dad had no problem with the police. He even went back down to Front Royal a month later to get his woodsman back. Like I said, it was the 1950's, and things were a little differnt.

But to my dying day, I will never ever forget the sight of a man going down screaming that his guts were on fire, and then dying. It made a lifelong impression. If somebody tells you a .22 won't do the job, thier're an idiot. When the liver, heart, kidneys, or other organs are punctured, blood pressure drops drasticly and fast. This results in loss of conciousness. If an organ does not get hit, then it won't matter if it was a .22 or a .45, there has been no major damage. they say the .22 does not have any shock effect. Maybe thats a good thing in a way. The people I've seen shot by a .22 seem to be in sever pain.

You'll be fine with the Ruger, deltastorm11. Just practice alot, and stay calm. The devil will be buying a snow shovel before you encounter a person who will take half a magazine of good CCi ammo in center of mass and still be a danger. It they are, then shoot the head. It'l work just fine.

Go ahead and use the Ruger .22 if you really like it, your the one shooting it. If you like it, thats all that really matters. It's a great gun, fun and cheap to practice with, and you'll get good with it.

These posts come up with great regularity. It's ridiculous that so called experianced gun people have such scorn for the .22. This leads to misconceptions that it is not a very dangerous and potentially deadly gun. Misconceptions that lead to a gun not being taken very seriously leads to tragic accidents. Like the idiot who wanted a hole through the wall for the TV cable and didn't have a drill, so he used the .22. He shot through the wall, hit his wife and killed her. I guess he thought that a .22 was only for squirells too.

Any gun, even a .22 short is dangerous. How deadly it is, is totally in the hands of the user.
 
As already stated a 22 is less than ideal as a SD round...much less. That being accepted and common knowledge, I ran into instances when I trained people for CCW certification where a 22 was all that would work. Think of an 84 year old women with arthritis.

What I taught and still believe, if circumstances dictate all you have for self defense is a 22, train/practice close range head shots. A cylinder or magazine full of 22s fired rapidly into the face of an assailant will most likely give them other things to think about other than hurting you.

Again, not ideal but you play the hand you are delt.

Dave
 
The problem with .22 reliability does not lie with the firearm in question. It's the ammunition that's the problem. It's not particularly perfectly primed and even in high quality ammo, will go bad a lot quicker than centerfire especially if carried in humid climes. I often carry a little NAA mini as a second or third gun in a pocket and I change the ammo out every week if I carry that gun. It will misfire over time from the sweaty environment of a south Texas summer pocket in pretty short order.

The Ruger is a might large for carry. If it's all you got, in the home, it would suffice with good marksmanship. I can fill an eyeball with mine at 50 yards off a bench. I cheat, though, has a 2x LER scope on it. Even with bulk pack ammo, though, it'll shoot 1" groups at 50 yards. It's just a standard Mk2, also, not a target gun.

I normally rely on a 9x19, a .38, a .45, or a .357 magnum for self defense. My Mk2 is huge fun to shoot and a killer little small game hunting pistol, but it's not a self defense auto. Could it be pressed into service for that? Sure. It's easy to make head shots with at room distances. I wouldn't wanna be shot with it. But, I have better calibers for the purpose.
 
A .22 will kill you the same as any other bullet, but I would never use one in self defense. Minimum selfe defense cal in my opinion is a .380. People tell you stories of people getting killed with .22s all the time, and they are all true. But guess what? A .22 will not lay someone out. And if someone is reaching for a weapon, or charging you with a knife, you need to STOP them cold, not shoot them 5 times with a .22 and have them continue to fight you till they bleed out.

Theres a reason police and military don't use .22s for people-stopping.

When you have someone charging you the object is to cause as much hydrodynamic shock in the shortest amount of time possible. You can't do this with a .22 effectively. If you're set on a pistol, get at LEAST a .380. For me, I would use nothing less than a 9mm.

But this is a moot point since a pistol is not what I would reach for. If someone comes breaking into my house at night I might tuck a pistol into my robe or something, yes, but I'm grabbing my 12GA.

Whatever you choose, make sure you practice practice practice. And good luck :)
 
Carl Levitain response...

Thanks for your sharing your experiences.

Are there more powerful, more effective rounds than the .22 lr?

Sure there are, but the fact is that a .22 in the right hands is a deadly weapon. Even in the wrong hands, these can still kill. .22s can kill you just as easy as anything else with proper shot placement. I'd rather have my wife get in multiple hits with a .22 than missing with my .357 magnum.

Would I want to depend on a .22 to save my life? I'd prefer something bigger, but I'd rather have a .22 than no gun at all.

http://stoppingpower.info/index.php?title=CarDoor_Videos

If a .22 can easily shoot through a car door, what do you think it would do to your head or your chest? It would make a tiny hole, but the size of the hole doesn't really matter if you hit a vital organ.
 
Deliberately deciding to use a .22 for HD is suicidal IMO.

While I agree that it's not the best choice, especially if you live in a house, I don't consider it "suicidal."

Since I've been on my own, I've spent as much time living in apartments as I have houses. Those apartments did not always have thick, bullet-proof walls, and even #1 shot would penetrate enough drywall to pose a danger to the other occupants of the building (i.e. my neighbors).

Yes, a rimfire round might also penetrate the dividing wall between apartments, but fewer of them than most other centerfire handgun rounds and with less projectiles than buckshot.

It's not my first recommendation if you can afford otherwise, or if your living circumstances allow you to shoot in any direction in your home without risk of collateral damage. A 12G shotgun and 9mm handgun are my choices today. But at one point in my life a semi-auto .22 rifle was all I could afford to shoot on a regular basis, and one of the few I could shoot with less risk of putting lead into my neighbor's kids.

jm
 
I hate to be the guy who keeps saying this, but people need to BACK UP what they say, especially in a public venue such as this.

So far in this thread I have heard people say:

* Rimfire ammunition is not reliable - Someone PROVE this with empirical data. If its true, then rim fire ammunition should have a substantially higher percentage of failures than center fire ammunition of comparable quality, AND this should be true across multiple brands, and in multiple firearms. Lines that include "in my experience" or "my buddy said" or "the way I remember it" are not legitimate evidence. Post numbers from a verifiable source.

* I keep hearing left and right that people are killed but not incapacitated by 22s. Where is this information coming from? Someone please post 5 verifiable incidents where someone who was shot with a .22 wasn't stopped, but would have been if hit in the same spot with a single 9mm or larger. Any incidents offered should make note of ammunition type.

As seen in penetration tests, modern high velocity .22lr ammo can indeed reach vital organs. The brass fetcher tests show that CCI Velocitors will exit a 16" gelatin block, even from the short 3.5" barrel of a P-22. The 4-6" barrels on Ruger pistols would reach vitals for certain with every shot. Rugers are very accurate pistols, and CAN be made to run reliably; I just went through this process myself.

If the gun is accurate enough o do the job, reliable enough and penetrates enough to do the job, then the burden for doing the job rests on your personal skill.
 
I have a mark III, and have told several people, several times. I would rather have it with me if I needed it than almost anything else. Good in most situations, without a lot of downsides. But on to the ammo debate.

At 7 yards I could put all ten rounds into a paper plate in a little over a second.
Think buckshot. Little holes, and a lot of them. NO one says buckshot won't stop someone,

I think people over estimate big rounds, and under estimate little rounds.
22 stinger hits harder than a 32 auto, with a smaller hole.
stinger: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=199998
32 auto: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=153200

22 mag hits harder than 380, and even 38 special +p. but again, smaller hole.
22 mag:http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=775384
380: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=550134
38 spc: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=152083

And if people say it's about caliber size.... why do people have 223 rifles? Bullet speed is important in causing trauma, trauma causes shock.

I think any gun is a good defense in the right hands. Train well, find what works. go with it.
 
Back in the '80's I had a Ruger Target model that I could shoot so fast you would think it was a machine pistol---while making a 2-3in group at 20yds.

So it can throw a lot of lead in a little spot---just make sure you pick the right spot and avoid bulk pack ammo.

Not the best choice--but still workable--no doubt.
 
* Rimfire ammunition is not reliable - Someone PROVE this with empirical data. If its true, then rim fire ammunition should have a substantially higher percentage of failures than center fire ammunition of comparable quality, AND this should be true across multiple brands, and in multiple firearms. Lines that include "in my experience" or "my buddy said" or "the way I remember it" are not legitimate evidence. Post numbers from a verifiable source.

I'm sure there are articles out there on the net that will tell you this, but I know it through experience, so you'll just have to trust me on this. I own a dozen rimfires, long guns and handguns of one sort or another. This experience might not be legit to you, but by holy God it is to me! I ain't trusting my life to rimfire ammunition except if I keep it fresh and in a gun I know dents a larger part of the rim for reliable ignition and only as last ditch back up to a primary or primary and back up and preferably with high quality, not bulk pack ammo. The only reason I ever carry my NAA is that it takes up about as much room as a pocket knife and it could come in handy, you never know. I've used it to shoot vermin and even a few rabbits, but thankfully have never had to use anything in a firefight, let alone the NAA.

I can recall reading articles in the past touting .25ACP over .22 in the mouse gun wars for the very reason of ignition AND feed reliability of the .25. I used to have a .25 and it always went bang even with stale ammo, so I know this to be a truism in that comparison, too. I can gaurantee you, as I've seen it too many times, you carry a rimfire in the summer in a pocket and after a couple of months, you'll get a full cylinder of misfires. That's why I always replace ammo weekly (it's cheap) in the NAA when carry it. It never fails to die from the humidity if you don't, never, nada, what is it about no you don't understand? Think of rimfire as fancy cap and ball loads. Ol' Wild Bill unloaded, cleaned, and reloaded his brace of Colt Navys daily for the same reasons. At least it's easier to unload a rimfire and reload it.

Trust the rimfire at your own risk. I have the knowledge, been there, done that. Even if you're going to use it for home defense in a Ruger, load up with CCI. Federal bulk pack has a misfire in my Mk2 about 1 out of every 200 or so rounds, never fails. It's just not well primed and CCI is. This is no big deal when shooting metal plates or even squirrels, but in a fight, it could cost you your life. Do your on research, I ain't wasting my time. It's YOUR life after all, not mine. I could give a nit. Might help to get out and shoot now and then, too. Experience has been my best teacher.
 
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Trust the rimfire at your own risk.

I could say the same thing about 1911s, for as many of them as I've seen malf at a range. ;)

jm
 
Well, When I started shooting, I was able to hit 5 metal plates at my gun range in about 4 to 5 seconds with a .22. Using my friend's dad's HK USP 9mm I couldn't hit one. So, my guess is that I would have fared much better with the .22 than the 9mm, in a self defense shooting.

If it's what you got, just know what it can and and can't do. Don't expect to pull the trigger once, and certainly be ready to use your hand or something else, but certainly don't expect a .45 or 9mm or even a 12 ga to shoot a "silver bullet".
 
If that's the only thing you'd considering carrying, then I think it's a great gun/caliber!

I'm thinking many overseas assassins use the venerable .22, don't they? (My son got this from the Military Channel.)

I got a SW Model 317 for my daughter and, fully loaded, you can barely tell it's there. Better than a sharp stick in the eye and most BGs won't be able to tell it's not a 38 special.
 
I would feel perfectly...perfectly...at home using a Ruger auto for self defense in the home. In many ways, I'd consider it an ideal home weapon. Imagine yourself standing in front of that little firecracker while it was cranking out eleven shots in just over four seconds. Also, check it out at the range. Shoot for the head and see how fast you can put three or four shots in the critical areas.

I think the .22LR is one of the most underrated rounds available today. I knew someone who was shot with one from almost a mile away and he nearly died. They found the place where the bullet came from, so they know how far away he was. He felt a stinging sensation in his back, then got dizzy and keeled over. He'd been working in his yard, so he wasn't at rest. It's a deadly little round and a nightmare for doctors.

RugerMarkII_9a.gif
 
tip_backround.jpg

I wouldn't want to get hit with any of these. Of course if you shot me with one I might be inclined to shoot you back with something bigger...
 
Harmon Rabb wrote...
was he found to be on drugs? (meth, pcp, etc?) i hear these stories and they're wild. on the other hand, i also read an article about a little girl who killed a kodiak bear with a .22 (talk about a lucky shot! she must've shot it in the eye or something)

however, i'd bet that for every one of these stories you recount, there are 10 where the bad guy is shot once COM with a 9mm, .40, or .45 and stopped instantly.

No drugs, just adrenaline. Actually the instant stops with a handgun tend to be more rare than the shot and run away. Now most of the badguys did stop what they were doing, but probably did have the ability to continue fighting if so inclined.
 
I aways like reading someone saying not too carry a 22 and their not any good. then add they carry a 22 once in a while.:banghead: If thats what you want to carry and your accurate fine,practice two in the body and one to the head. When I practice with my 22 I shoot 2 in the body(center mass) try for shirt pocket 1 in the forehead and one in the throat and back to the body. of course I'm trying for all hits to center of body and a couple always go high because of recoil ;). Most of the time I do carry a 45 but conditions change so I must also.
 
While it's true that a .22 is better than no gun at all ... and while it's true that the .22 has long been the choice of so-called professionals ... and while it's true that any number of gun-related deaths have been attributed to the lowly .22 caliber round through the years (including many high-profile cases) ... it's also true that you can do far better with any number of more potent calibers whose attending guns will offer you many, if not all, of the same advantages that you are seeking in a .22.

That having been said, only you can determine whether you want to trust your life and the lives of your loved ones to a .22.
 
From my experiences as an officer handguns suck as a defensive weapon. You carry it because of ease not because its tremendously effective.
I beg to differ. Handguns are the ideal home defense weapon. Law enforcement is a far cry from home defense, and the newspapers are full of stories of people who used them (even .22LRs) successfully in self defense. I used to gather such stories when I worked for the NRA years ago. They still print those stories in their monthly publications. Even the diminutive .25ACP has been used to put bad guys down and, in a surprisingly large number of cases, kill them. Police officers also are under more stringent rules of engagement than most civilians. Even their presence, their uniforms, evoke emotional responses in some criminals.

A bad guy is more frightened of civilians who might not have the rigid training or discipline that an officer would. Their first thought is, I wonder if this guy's going to accidentally shoot me?

Police usually run into far more people who take multiple hits than civilians. And a .22LR pistol can put a lot of lead into the air and very accurately, too.

A .22 will kill you the same as any other bullet, but I would never use one in self defense. Minimum selfe defense cal in my opinion is a .380.
A .380 tends to have substantially more recoil and flash than a .22LR, plus inadequate stopping power. A .22LR hits someone in the chest and it can end up anywhere because it doesn't have the energy to exit. It can be delivered quickly to the chest and head, whereas the .380 is more difficult to control, like most centerfire pistols. But even then, the .380 has also stopped a lot of bad guys. But I'd prefer a .22LR.

Anyone who chooses to use a .22 LR when they could have chosen a bigger round is suicidal IMO.
Again, there are lots of dead bad guys who have fallen victim to the .22LR. I've never seen any articles about homeowners who failed to stop a bad guy with a .22LR or who were killed after they shot a bad guy, though I'm sure it's bound to have happened; but if so, it's very rare.

Larger rounds can do things like break the bones of bad guys. A bad guy with a seriously broken arm or leg is a seriously hampered bad guy. They might not die quickly but their ability to damage you will be seriously diminished.
Granted. For home defense, a .38 Spc. would have more of whallop. That said, a .22LR can be aimed very accurately. But I've seen people with .38s who miss head shots at relatively minor distances. Placement is usually far superior with .22LR. If you want a one-shot stop, your best bet is to use a .357 mag with 125 gr JHP. If it connects, almost anywhere, it's very good at taking people out. But the blast and the recoil are such that followup shots might be difficult.

Rifles and shotguns may have superior stopping power, but to use them in enclosed spaces is problematic unless you've got a barrel under 18 inches long. Bringing them on target takes more time than with a handgun and someone with a fireplace poker (a common handy weapon for intruders) or just bare hands can deflect or grab a long barrel if you're moving around or going to another room to retrieve your children.
 
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