22 trail gun

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Back from a few gun shops. I liked them all! I wish I could buy them all. Even like the Ruger--forgive me father Charlton for I have sinned-- but not the 22/45. Wife liked the long barrelled Walther the most. Buckmark feels very nice and solid. A little heavier than I'd like though.

I'm kind of mentally wedded to snakeshot capability. So revolvers are in the lead. Handled a Taurus 94, but only a 2". DA trigger was heavy, as some have suggested. Didn't drop the hammer (no snaps caps or the plasticky cyl block thing) on the SA.

But that Smith 317.... very, very nice. Except the $500+ tax price. :( I may just bite the bullet anyway. Those sites are wacky, but the really seem to work. How rugged can those things be?

However, neither had used handguns. So I didn't see any of the other suggestions. I'll keep looking to see if I can get my paws on a cadet, woodsman, Hi Standard, or maybe a Rossi (if the price is right).

I'm going to have to spend more time mentally evaluating whether or not snakeshot and S/L/LR capability is a key requirement. Not sure if it should be that way. Haven't really had much of a need for snakeshot so far. My wife is really terrified of snakes, though, and this is a significant selling point for her. :evil: I feel a little bad about playing on that... just a little. :)

Subsonics 22 LR could be used in one of the automatics (even if I have to manually jack the slide) and would be nearly as quiet as a 22 Short if the situation called for less noise. So maybe S/L/LR isn't really that important. And while I'm at it, I will try to further evaluate whether or not light weight is really that important. I'm used to carry a fullsize weapon, so carrying a larger .22 isn't going to be an issue. For that matter, maybe I should reconsider the 5-6 inch barrels. I just need to shoot some used .22's at a shop with a range.

I have significant saddle time with full power handguns. Almost none with .22's. What are your experiences with 3 inch/4 inch vs. 5 inch/6 inch barrels (site radius) affecting accuracy?
 
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My S&W 22A has a 7" Fluted Bull Barrel and it's easier to be accurate with it than a 2" or 4" barrel. Sight raduis is a real factor in accuracy.
 
nemoaz said:
I'm kind of mentally wedded to snakeshot capability.
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You do know that snakeshot is all but useless from a large caliber handgun past 10 feet or so, and closer than that from a .22, right?

The rifling of a pistol barrel spins the charge and causes it to spread out much more quickly than a smooth-bore does.

And given how few pellets there are in a .22 shot cartridge... and the fact that those itty-bitty pieces of shot lose velocity/energy extremely quickly... well, you should be able to see where it's a point-blank-only proposition.

My point here is that if you're "wedded" to the idea of using a shot charge on things, that maybe you should consider something other than a .22.

J.C.
 
But that Smith 317.... very, very nice. Except the $500+ tax price. I may just bite the bullet anyway. Those sites are wacky, but the really seem to work. How rugged can those things be?
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I don't know how rugged the HIVIZ sights are, but from the looks of the pic on the S&W website the front sight is pinned on. What this means is that the front sight can replaced with nothing more than a small brass hammer and the appropriate punch for the pin.
And while I'm at it, I will try to further evaluate whether or not light weight is really that important. I'm used to carry a fullsize weapon, so carrying a larger .22 isn't going to be an issue. For that matter, maybe I should reconsider the 5-6 inch barrels.
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If you're thinking of that I'd strongly suggest you look at a S&W K-22 revolver. I forget mine's there when I'm carrying it on a belt holster. The sight radius with its 6" bbl is also very nice.
 
you should be able to see where it's a point-blank-only proposition.
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Yeah, I know. My father often used a short barrelled .22 with snake shot when we had a infestations of water moccasins in the creek. It was usually a 10 foot or so proposition. You don't want to get too close to one of those.

If you're thinking of that I'd strongly suggest you look at a S&W K-22 revolver. I forget mine's there when I'm carrying it on a belt holster. The sight radius with its 6" bbl is also very nice.
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Will do. Hopefully there will be a few used ones around town somewhere.
 
I have owned several 22's. I have owned revolvers in a DA Rossi 4", a DA High Standard 4", and a SA cheap German 6". I liked the size an weight of all these guns, but accuracy while not terrible was disappointing to me. I am sure some of the accuracy problem was operator error. I never fired them from a rest, just always off hand plinking. I currently own 2 22 handguns. I have a semi-auto S&W 22S which is very accurate and has the ability to interchange barrels (4", 5" 7.5") which I really like. My revolver is a 1 5/8" NAA mini-revolver with the interchangable 22mag cylinder. I put the mini-master grips on this one which makes it a lot easier to shoot with my big hands. This is my son's favorite handgun without question.

The NAA is about the same accuracy wise as the larger revolvers mentioned above, but it is so easy to carry in a pocket holster, belt clip holster, foldable plastic grip with clip, or even around your neck on a chain that there is never an excuse to leave it behind. I also wanted the ability to shoot s/l/lr/mags and snake shot, which can't be done with a semi-auto as others have said. I acutally carried it as an "ear, nose, and throat" gun for personal protection as a deep concealment hideout. The accuracy being on par with the larger revolvers I have owned, I have never looked back from my purchase of the little NAA mini-revolver. It does everything I wanted a 22 revolver for. I drop it in the pocket of my shorts with snake shot when I am cutting grass around the lake house where I might encounter a cotton mouth or a copperhead. I carry it plinking with my son, (started when he was about 11 years old). At contact range with the 22mag rounds it would end a hostile attack pretty fast with a head shot.

NAA service is legendary, so if you EVER have ANY problem with it (I have never had any problems with mine), they will fix it muy pronto no questions asked, even if you bought the gun used. They advertise on their web site GREAT monthly specials on accessories and change items on special every month. You can pick them up at considerably less than retain price if you have the patience to wait until the item you want goes on special. Here are this months specials http://www.naaminis.com/month.html

If I need extreme accuracy, I just use my 22S. You can buy a NAA mini-revolver for plinking/pest/deep concealment AND a 22S for plinking/hunting/target and still stay in your price range if you buy them used. That is what I would recommend. That is what I did and I am very happy with my decision years later.
 
I've shot a lot of snakes with a handgun and never used shot loads to do it. Thinking back on it, I don't remember ever shooting a snake with a handgun other than in .22LR and loaded with a .22LR HV load. I've shot a few with shotguns afield and in my back yard once, (6 foot rattler behind my shop), but of all the ones I've killed with a handgun, all were shot with a .22 and I've rarely had to fire more'n once and when I did, the snake was moving. I've shot snakes out at 25 yards with a .22 handgun! Inside 10 feet, the head is a huge target for a good shootin' .22. I don't understand all this shot load crap for snakes, just baffles me. One hollowpoint to the head, and hey, he's a dead snake! I've even made head shots at close range with my NAA mini .22 with a 1" barrel! With a kit gun, it's kid's stuff.

I still prefer revolvers to autos in .22 caliber, though. I own both. I have 4 .22 autos and two revolvers if you include my NAA mini, yet my little Rossi is my go to rimfire for the outdoors and my mini is always in my pocket because, well, because. I don't even notice it there all day. It is only 5 ounces, as easy to carry as a pocket knife and it sure has come in handy on occasion.

I liked the size an weight of all these guns, but accuracy while not terrible was disappointing to me. I am sure some of the accuracy problem was operator error. I never fired them from a rest, just always off hand plinking
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.

If you don't fire off sand bags, how can you regulate the sights? I fire ALL my guns from 25 yards off bags to adjust the sights and to test accuracy of the gun. If I had a ransom rest, I'd fire 'em from that and totally eliminate all operator error. That way, I know how well the gun, itself shoots. If you're a serious outdoorsman, you will fire from the bench to test the gun and regulate the sights. If you have a 2" snub and don't know how to file a front sight and 10 feet is all you care about in the concrete jungle, well.... Hell, I shoot my 2" .38 snubby at 100 yards on occasion, have an elevation wire, Keith style, embedded in the front sight to help with the elevation. I even had a front sight dovetailed into the barrel to allow for windage adjustments.

My little Rossi will put five RWS Target into a little over an inch at 25 yards and Federal .22 Lightening into 2 inches. That's danged excellent for a 4" kit gun and allows me to do some serious fun 25-50 yard plinkin'. :D My NAA 1" barrel mini in a holster grip is capable of 6-8" groups off the bench at 25 yards. Out of a ransom rest, it might do better, if you could get inserts for it. But, that short sight radius severely limits the small NAAs. It is impossible for ME to get any better groups with it and 25 to 50 yard plinking ain't so fun with that gun. The mini master, OTOH, has a 4" barrel and much longer sight radius. That's the one I wanna hear about. I already know about the little ones, owned and have been shooting mine for 20 years. And, don't wanna hear how it does at 10 feet off hand. I want to hear how it does off sand bags at 25 yards. That tells me something. If someone tells me they can't hit paper at 20 yards off hand with it, all I learn is the guy either can't adjust the sights, has no clue, or can't shoot for crap.
 
I've used .22 shot cartridges mostly on rats and similar varmits -- when you walk up on a snake in the woods, you usually have something else in mind and something else in the chamber.

I've done a bit of experimentation with shot cartridges in .45 ACP (Using Ed Harris' dies to produce loads that feed and eject automatically) and in .45 Colt. Those would be most useful in survval situations, to take small game.
 
nemoaz said:
Yeah, I know. My father often used a short barrelled .22 with snake shot when we had a infestations of water moccasins in the creek. It was usually a 10 foot or so proposition. You don't want to get too close to one of those.
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Not trying to change your mind about what type of gun you want, just wondering if you knew what you were getting into with the shot loads. If you have prior experience, then you know your needs better than I do.

Oh, and on a side note... the last snake I had to kill, I did in with a 4 ft long Hickory switch.

One wack across the nogin, and Mr. Hisser was... Hissssstory. :p :rolleyes: :D

( The snake in question was a 4-5 ft long "Chicken snake"... nothing toxic. It was, however, well and truly pissed off, thanks to my dogs, and was looking for a fight. I don't like killing the non-poisonous snakes around here, so would really have liked to just send it back to the woods... but the snake wasn't having any of it. )



J.C.
 
I've used .22 shot cartridges mostly on rats and similar varmits -- when you walk up on a snake in the woods, you usually have something else in mind and something else in the chamber.
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Precisely. When I'm out and about, I'm usually hoping for a shot at a bunny, not a snake, and when a snake comes along, I just pop him in the head. Far as that NAA goes. I always have that in my pocket. I rarely carry a hickory switch in my pocket, but the NAA is there where ever I go, whatever time of day. Only time I can't reach down and grab it is in bed at night. So, I've popped a couple of snakes using it in lieu of a 9mm +P 115 grainer. The neighborhood never seems to pay attention to a .22. I did use a 12 gauge on that big rattler. That's before I bought the NAA mini. My 4 year old was playing in the back hard and I heard it rattlin' behind my shop as my cat stalked it. Rushed the kid inside, grabbed the shotgun. No one complained at the shot, but that's all I had handy and I usually think gun rather than hickory. I don't have a hickory in the yard. Would mesquite do? :D
 
I shot my last pizenous snake, a copperhead, with a .30-06. It was spring squirrel season, and I had a Hammond Game Getter up the spout -- a case with the head replaced with an off-center .22 RF chamber, using a nail-setting blank and a sized 00 buckshot.
 
MCgunner said:
I rarely carry a hickory switch in my pocket...
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Neither do I, and I have to admit it wasn't my first choice with the incident I mentioned... However, the 9 year-old came screaming through the door in tears ( She had stepped in the middle of the snake while playing with the dogs, then panicked when she saw what she stepped on. It didn't bite her, since she had hit it at a dead run. ), and I went out in a hurry to see what the problem was. Found our 4 dogs surrounding the snake and holding it in place. Couldn't tell what they had, and had a helluva time getting them off of it... Finally saw it was a snake, and grabbed a switch off a nearby Hickory ( I don't know if mesquite would do or not, since we don't have any here in TN for me to try. ;) )

Anyway, the switch was useful in not only dealing with the snake, but in getting the dogs off of it to see what I had on my hands as well.

Since then, however, no matter what the alarm or catastrophe, I pick up a gun of some kind when I head out to investigate the goings-on in the back yard. ( I may be a little slow sometimes, but I do learn. :D )

Oh, and speaking of that, I just bought a Beretta 21 Bobcat that I've become really taken with... It's small, accurate, and reliable. ( Now that I've tinkered with it, and got it set up to shoot what i usually buy in the way of .22 ammo anyway. )

It and the good ol' Walmart-issue Federal "Value Pack" .22s should do just fine for snakes.

That combo has certainly been hell on the pine cones here these last few days, anyway. I've managed to exterminate every single one of 'em withing 15 yards or so of the back deck, since I bought the gun last week. :evil:

Now I just have to keep the wife from taking the gun away from me.... :uhoh:
( She keeps telling me that it's "her gun", and that she's only letting me use it... )


J.C.
 
I bought a Taurus 94 in 4" specifically for a kit gun while river fishing. As stated before, great single action trigger. I shoot Stingers on down to those powder-free/primer only loads. I would recommend it for a .22.

BUT between the meth labs and mountain lions that a guy could run into around here, I've recently upgraded to a Ruger SP101 3" .357 for a trail gun.
 
I don't worry about meth labs and certainly not mountain lions down here, but I often carry a .45 Colt or .357 in my messing around outdoors. I have a lot of hogs on my place. Of course, if I'm carrying a Blackhawk, I won't see one of the tasty critters. If I'm carrying a .22, they'll be all over the place. :rolleyes: Usually the way it goes. LOL It's kinda like I'm one bird from a limit and getting hungry for breakfast and coffee, the ducks ain't flyin', so I give up and wade out to pick up the deeks and suddenly, they're flying in from everywhere. Happens every danged time!:rolleyes:
 
Nobody's mentioned the venerable old H&R's! These can be picked up for a song in generally good to great condition in a variety of bbl lengths. ($100-$200) Great pack/plinking guns, IMO. Also the High Standard "Sentinels" are plentiful, cheap and function well.
You did mention getting it as a trainer for young folks, therefore I would advise against a semi-auto for safety reasons (unless you plan on loading one round at a time). I understand your distaste for Ruger, but I swallowed hard and bought a "Bearcat" for a trainer for my #1 son when he was @ 6 yrs old. Perfect size for a youngun starting out, and easy to monitor from a safety standpoint (vs. a semi). I wish someone else would make a similarly sized revo, I'd buy it!
 
BUT between the meth labs and mountain lions that a guy could run into around here, I've recently upgraded to a Ruger SP101 3" .357 for a trail gun.
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Never fear, for a few dozen .40s are always near. But a .22 companion is also desired.
 
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I got a S&W 317 3" barrel about a year ago for about $550 and am very happy with it. It is slightly long for concealed pocket carry but it carries well in cargo jeans or shorts. It seems to weigh about as much as a pocket knife. The Hi-Viz sights are not the best for bullseye shooting but are very fast to acquire and easy to see in poor lighting. Snake shot works just fine on snakes at close range. If you prefer to use the usual lead bullets, practice shooting at very close ranges, like 3 to 10 feet. Parallax can cause an unexpected point of impact at these ranges.

P.S. This revolver is nicely accurate and reliable. The trigger and action are excellent.


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I really enjoy my P-22. Very lightweight and fun to shoot. I have had no problems in 600 rounds so far. I highly recommend the P-22. As others have mentioned in other places, it works best with high velocity ammo.
 
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