Trail gun

[Holgersen]

I might be confusing people. When I say hiking, I mean backpacking. That is carrying everything you will need to survive for weeks on end hiking 10 plus miles a day. So to answer ms6852's snide comment. I am not out of shape.

When you are backpacking every pound counts. I like my hikes to be enjoyable and not an exercise in torture so I try to keep my pack as light as possible (I'm not in the Marines anymore, so I'm done with the forced hikes). Even two pounds of extra weight after a few days can really wear you down.

Sure I could carry my xd-45 compact and four loaded magazines, but that weighs more than my tent! Better yet I could carry one of my shotguns with a box of deer slugs or my Marlin .35 remington. (I'm being sarcastic)

Please offer me real suggestions instead of the same old bs that bigger is always better.

Here is the criteria. Light, simple, reliable and preferably small. It's only as a last ditch defense against two legged predators. I'm not looking to take down a bear.

I've already got a pm9 with a ct laser. I might just stick with that but I wanted to hear other suggestions.

This is also an excuse to buy another gun.

 

[Zundfolge]

Well like I said before NAA minis are toys ... now if you want a toy thats fine, but if you want something extremely light weight that is useful for self defense the LCP is going to be your best bet (although your PM9 is pretty doggone light).

 

[Boris bush]

I shot one of them NAA mini 22 revolvers a couple times. We shot some pins at a practice match onetime. The most solid shots only rocked the pins at 7 yards. Even a slightly longer barrel at 3" would knock the pins over.

If it has to be a 22rf, S&W and taurus makes some very light revolvers in 22rf that hold alot more ammo, are easier to reload and will do the job better.

I would tend to agree with what has been advised. the LCP or P3AT are light guns. If they are too heavy then get a P32, they are even lighter and hold one more round. I have shot a few vermin with mine and it kills little animals much better than a 22rf from larger guns. I bet it would work better on the type of threat you would carry it for too.

LCP sounds like great advice to me, the P3AT is slightly lighter and the P32 is a couple oz lighter.

You might want to look at the LCP. It is a great compromise between the NAA and a Beretta 92........

 

[CajunBass]

For all 'round knocking about in the woods, it's pretty hard to beat a Ruger Bearcat. If you're really worried about defense from humans, you might want something bigger, but since you originally said a NAA mini, I'd say that's not really a big consideration. A Smith & Wesson 22/32 kit gun (whatever the current model number is these days) would be another one. That's what those guns were designed for.

 

[valorius]

The lightest weapon you're gonna get that's gonna offer any kind of "serious" defense at all is a Kel Tec P32. With a CT laser and some buffalo bore hardcast lead ammo (to be used only in the chamber and the top round in the mag, to avoid rimlock issues), you'd have a reasonable amount of defense for under 10ozs of total weight. Those buffalo bore rounds penetrate about 14 or 15" of gel.

That being said, i had a P32, and i was not too thrilled with it's quality at all. The LCP is a much better Kel Tec.

Here's a pic of my now sold P32 next to an ipod for scale. Even with the extended 10rd mag it's a tiny little pistol.



The rounds pictured are the buffalo bore HC lead rounds i mentioned.

In my opinion the extra 3oz of the LCP is well worth bearing to get the far less finicky and more powerful .380acp cartridge. The semi-rimmed design of .32acp can cause a lot of problems with rimlock jams, which totally lock the magazine up when they occur. Someone really needs to come out with a rimless .32 auto cartridge, these little handguns would be a heck of a lot more desirable to me if they didn't have all the finicky semi-rim issues that .32acp does.

 

[Pilot]

I backpack, but don't do several week trips. Mine are mostly weekends or 3 - 4 days max, so weight is important, but not as critical as you.

A Ruger 22/45 (polymer frame) with a lightweight Tacsol Pac-Lite barrel is a good option for you. I know its only .22LR, but for the weight, you get an accurate, samll game, survival and in a pinch defense firearm.

http://www.tacticalsol.com/products...page=flypage.tpl&product_id=20&category_id=14

 

[rtpzwms]

As a backpacker too I liked the Ruger LCP suggested by many here. I don't think it would be too heavy to carry for a couple of weeks. I don't think I would pile on the ammo maybe two mags worth ought to do. But I would loose the tent in favor of a tarp smaller and lighter and can pull tent duty when pressed. I carried a tent for a while and never set it up unless it was going to be a down-poor. Good luck and enjoy your walk!

 

[ColeK]

I would look at a S&W Model 317 Kit Gun, it is a 8 shot 22 and the weight is 12.5 oz unloaded. If you want a larger caliber look a S&W Model 637, it is a 5 shot .38 Spl and the weight is 12.5 oz unloaded.

 

[Holgersen]

I actually only carry a tarp when I'm alone, but my wife has had some problems converting, which is why we have still be carrying the tent.
Course the last time we went out the tarp saved our ass in a down pour.

We had hiked two miles in a thunder storm getting soaked and when we finally got to the camp site I just rigged my tarp real quick and we were able to huddle underneath it to get dry and wait for the storm to pass.

I'd like to stay away from the autoloaders. I don't have anything against them, because that is pretty much all I own, but I feel like most of them are too high maintenence in the woods, especailly if they get soaking wet or the finish starts to rust.

I'm looking more for a revolver because I don't have to worry about lube washing away or breaking down a gun into a bunch of tiny peices in the middle of the woods to clean it every night.

The lcp might be a good choice for winter hiking when I won't be sweating through all my clothing and gear.

 

[David E]

All this info would've been helpful in the OP........

Given your attitude and parameters..........get a North American Arms PUG and call it good. (unless it's too heavy, then just get the NAA in .22 Long Rifle w/ 1" barrel and load it with Stingers, as they have a lighter bullet)

 

[Boris bush]

I'd like to stay away from the autoloaders. I don't have anything against them, because that is pretty much all I own, but I feel like most of them are too high maintenence in the woods, especailly if they get soaking wet or the finish starts to rust.

Get a Glock.

I have spent week plus periods of time outdoors. All my Glocks have been submerged in creeks, rivers, ponds, covered in mud, rained on, filled with dust, you name it.

They never miss a beat, never rust. All I do when I get home is rinse in fresh tap water and clean as normal after a good camping hiking trip.

I have even taken a shotgun where I know lots of bears and Mtn Lion will be.

There are times when I make hunting trips with the same gear and a pistol and a rifle or shotgun so I do not see it as added weight.......

 

[valorius]

A Ruger 22/45 (polymer frame) with a lightweight Tacsol Pac-Lite barrel is a good option for you. I know its only .22LR, but for the weight, you get an accurate, samll game, survival and in a pinch defense firearm.

How much is he spending on that, so that he can get a gun that's bigger and less effective than a .380 LCP?

I'd like to stay away from the autoloaders. I don't have anything against them, because that is pretty much all I own, but I feel like most of them are too high maintenence in the woods, especailly if they get soaking wet or the finish starts to rust.

I'm looking more for a revolver because I don't have to worry about lube washing away or breaking down a gun into a bunch of tiny peices in the middle of the woods to clean it every night.

The lcp might be a good choice for winter hiking when I won't be sweating through all my clothing and gear.

You do realize this is an imagined problem, right?

Dry lube amigo. It wont need to be cleaned at all if it's kept in it's pocket holster with good dry lube. I used to be in the infantry and have done a lot of humping with a lot of various automatic weaponry, i think you're inventing a non-existent problem.

No offense intended here, but it honestly sounds like you want to make virtually no commitment at all to a defensive arm. My suggestion would be to just skip it altogether, for all the good a .22 NAA mini revolver would do you. That's probably the only gun around that to me truly tests the theory that any gun is better than no gun. It has no range, no accuracy and no hitting power.

Truly, for the time you'd waste fumbling to draw such a useless little pistol, you'd be better off stabbing someone instead. Just buy a good knife.

Honestly, even if you pulled out your LCP and it jammed after the first shot, it would still be a better selection than a NAA mini revolver. All a NAA mini revolver offers is a very false sense of security. It would be useless against any kind of a determined threat, at least in my opinion.

An LCP with hardcast bullets can easily kill a wolf, coyote, even a mtn lion, and certainly a felon.

If you're gonna get a revolver, one of those S&W Airweight scandiums or a Taurus titanium in .38spl is to me as small as i'd go. Especially considering your wife will be with you. You lose this fight you're 'preparing' for...what happens to her?

 

[Wolfeye]

Holgersen,

Looking at your preferences, I'd suggest a caliber as small as .22 magnum or as large as .38+p, in double-action. You can use them for either self-defense or small game hunting in a pinch; I know from my long hikes that I'll sometimes under-estimate how much food I should've packed. Models you might look at are S&W's 351PD, 340PD, Ruger's LCR, and Charter Arm's Pathfinder Mag or Undercover Lite. These should weigh between 12-19 oz.

If you do decide to go with an auto for winter hiking, I think some of the lightest .380 autos are made by Kel-tec and Ruger. Kel-tec makes another interesting auto, a .22 magnum with a 30-round capacity.

If I decided to hunt with .38 spl or .380 acp, I think I'd pick a non-expanding bullet and only go for head shots, otherwise too much meat would be ruined.

My brother once brought along some small metal targets for plinking during a campout. Lots of fun. In retrospect, I think bottle caps or paper would've weighed a lot less.

 

[Pilot]

How much is he spending on that, so that he can get a gun that's bigger and less effective than a .380 LCP?

Effective for what? Not hitting anything within 10 feet? When you're backpacking, survival should you get lost, stuck, hurt, etc is always a consideration. An accurate .22LR has many more uses than a BUG .380.

Heck, forget the Tacsol barrel and just carry a 4 inch bull barrel 22/45.

 

[Zundfolge]

Truly, for the time you'd waste fumbling to draw such a useless little pistol, you'd be better off stabbing someone instead. Just buy a good knife.

Good point ... so the OP needs THIS!

 

[Holgersen]

I would tend to agree with valorious about not worrying about an autoloader when outside, but the last time I carried my pm9 out in the woods in a fanny pack thinking that it would be protected from at least a little moisture, it was so hot and humid that I sweat through the entire thing and it was covered in rust in just a few hours.

It was actually so wet I wasn't even sure the rounds would fire.

But I'm going to end this thread because it is basically useless. I'll keep carrying my PM9 so people don't freak out about me carry some sub par piece of gear. Maybe I'll just try and lighten my pack another way.

I like how people on this site assume you know nothing by asking for suggestions on something.

 

[okespe04]

My LCP goes every where with me. I often cycle 20 miles a day, this morning I did steep 4 mile hike up a dusty, rocky trial. Weighing it at 13.3 ounces loaded I can never even tell it is there. Worn off blue, a little rust here and there and often packed with grit and grime my LCP has never failed.


That said I do have to agree with some other posters in that a small .22 may be a better survival gun than a little .380 bug. Cougars, can be scared off my clapping your hands and yelling, lets not even talk about bears.... and most people do not want to get shot. With a little .22 you could have a very light little piece, carry extra ammo and you would have an accurate little gun that would pack a sting and would be great for bagging small game.

Just some thoughts...

 

[xtrmn8tr]

S&W model 63 for a 22 lr 8 shot...for alittle more power a Taurus 941 22 magnum 8 shot both in 5" barrels

 

[tubeshooter]

Here is the criteria. Light, simple, reliable and preferably small.

Given your stated purpose and if weight means almost everything, I think I'd go with a S&W 317 in 3". 8 rounds, revolver reliability, clocks in at 12.5 ounces I believe. About half as light as a Bearcat.

I've only had mine a short while, but it's a tough little thing to shoot since it's so light. Trigger isn't what I'd call light either, although I've had it only a short while and may not be the best judge. Especially in double action. A lot of practice may be in order, I know it is for me.


Be prepared to pay dearly.

 

[Gordon]

Well I carried a S&W model 37 (airweight) .38 Special with a 3" barrel that weighed 14 Oz. I could hit a dog sized target at 25 yards pretty well. Hit bunnies at 50 feet. I prefer 158 grain LSWCHP Remington ammo which I use sparingly. The gun hits to the sights with 158 grain ammo being a 70s gun. The advantage of the light single action availability makes it a superior game getter. The 158 grain ammo will kill deer and smaller game DRN if hit well. Death on Coyotes and lions too. I never shot a bear with a .38, but a nose or eye hit MIGHT do it. Has about three times the whack of a .22LR HP - at least!

 

[valorius]

Effective for what? Not hitting anything within 10 feet? When you're backpacking, survival should you get lost, stuck, hurt, etc is always a consideration. An accurate .22LR has many more uses than a BUG .380.

Can't hit anything with an LCP?

Sorry sir, you should try and shoot one before making such proclamations.


Shot this target at 25 feet using Federal Hydrashok JHP. The shot in the 9 ring is my fault, i anticipated the recoil a little, and shot the last round in the mag low.

 

[Pilot]

Shot this target at 25 feet using Federal Hydrashok JHP.

That is good shooting with a BUG sir. Nice job, however, 25 feet (8 yards) is not a distance I'd want to be limited to in the woods expecially for small game. Not saying this isn't a viable self defense choice, but that is only one consideration. Groups much smaller than that can be had with the Ruger at 25 YARDS, not feet.

 

[Brad5192]

glock 29

 

[Boris bush]

I have no clue what has happened to trail guns, but almost everyone I know that has one wether it be hiking, camping or hunting, its typicaly a service grade gun. Not some backup hope it hits and then penetrates through heavy clothing at a distance of 25 yards or more kind of gun.

I have seen smart phones that are larger and heavier than my P32. Should I take my phone in its waterproof baggy out and leave it home because it weighs too much? I carry my water in some heavyduty colapsable 'bags' with a waterbottle top. They take up less space and weigh next to nothing. Dump the stainless water bottle (even a plastic one weighs 10x more) create more space and dump some weight.

If you are going to carry a gun for protection then do it. Shed the weight somewhere else. A buddy of mine cuts the tags out of everything, brings a spork with a serated end on one side of the fork (spoon is on one end, fork on the other) that weighns nothing cuz its plastic. After the tags are cut out He cuts laces, anything that is extra out and he weighed it. He cut two and seven tenths pounds of weight. You can add a Glock and an extra mag and still weigh the same.

Look for a solution instead of looking for justification to carry one of them things. A blowgun from Cabellas would be of more use than one of them tiny belt buckle guns. Cut the weight somewhere else and take a real gun.

 

[David E]

Maybe I'll just try and lighten my pack another way.

Lighten the pack instead of skimping on a firearm choice carried for personal defense? Where your choice could mean the difference between literal life and death?

Now why would you want to do that ?