>223/5.56NATO What Happened?

[loose noose]

Yesterday I went to my personal range out here in the desert, and began shooting my AR-15, that I built about 5 years ago, and had just recently placed a Vortex scope on it. (Crossfire 2X7 inexpensive). I set up the target at 100 yards. Using 5.56 NATO reloads in once fired PMC brass, 24.3 grains of Varget powder, CCI primers, and 69GRN Sierra HP/BT projectiles. The OAL was right at 2.260, reloaded on 02-15-18.

Upon firing the first round, I noted no reset on the trigger, so upon inspection, I noticed a jam. Note this arm has never had so much as a hic cup in over 1000 rounds of use. My firearm was cleaned prior to taking it out to the range, and cleared prior to loading. Closer inspection showed, after dropping the magazine that there were two rounds inside each other, as depicted by the photos, however both fell out the magazine drop. I tried unsuccessfully to separate them, but to no avail, until I got home and placed one inside the vice and the other on a channel locks, and was able to remove the unfired round.

After further inspection of the rifle, I fired one additional round and noted it struck right next to the first shot but a little low, (so I adjusted the scope to reflect the POI) so after shooting the remaining 18 rounds I noted no additional problems. Below are the photos of the round in question, what happened?

 

[badkarmamib]

Looks like the case head got ripped off of the first round during extraction, and the second round went into the resulting hole in the case. Odd that the case would have separated after one firing, but not unheard of.

 

[GunnyUSMC]

Had that happen with a Brownong M2 50 cal years ago.

 

[243winxb]

Its a case separation. Can happen in the case body or closer to the head.

The cause is over fl sizing, pushing the shoulder back to far.

Or brass was fired in a gun that has excessive chamber headspace. May take only 1 firing to damage the brass.

A thin shiny line may be seen before separation happens.

New factory ammo is known to have a sloppy loose fit in some chambers. Check head to datm with a comparitor.

 

[Blue68f100]

Like said case head separation.

How many times has the brass been reloaded? Moving the shoulder back too far during sizing will promote the problem. For a simi-auto you only need to push the shoulder back 0.002-0.003"Max. I'm able to run mine at 0.001-0.002" in my tight match chambers. But I anneal every time so I don't have to deal with brass spring back.

 

[M1key]

Had it happen to me a few times before--different rifles and different calibers. Even with new ammo (303 Brit).

A friend had separations shooting his Glock 40--because he insisted on using scrounged brass from the range. I had to esplain it to him.

If it happens STOP SHOOTING until you figure out what went wrong.

M

 

[Walkalong]

This might help.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/incipient-case-head-separation.734058/

 

[loose noose]

The only problem is I was using once fired brass, PMC that normally had 62grn. NATO 5.56 original loads, I loaded them using Sierra 69grn. BT/HP as far as my AR 15 is concerned the head space has been checked using the go, no go gauges as well as the field gauge, and I've shot very close to 1000 rounds without any problems. In fact it has a SS varmint barrel on it and even the remainder of the box all grouped well w/I and inch (MOA) at 100 yards. I do appreciate the info you provided though, I will definitely use that in the near future. I've got as many as 5-6 reloadings prior to discarding my other casings. I do a full length case resizing using RCBS dies that are about 30-35 years old or older, however I've never had any issues with loading the cartridge in the chamber, I don't use range brass, and do keep track of my brass, the number of times loaded etc.and use new brass when testing a new load. Note all my brass is sized to over all length before even starting to reload (1.750"). Anyway, I do appreciate all the replies, I just thought it strange how the 2nd round went into the casing of the first round, especially after it extracted the case head, the second round will be unloaded and I'll check the remaining cases with the pick as shown, as well as dissect some of those cases that fired fine. Thanks again for the replies especially Walkalong.

 

[GunnyUSMC]

Sometimes you just get a bad case.

 

[Walkalong]

Note all my brass is sized to over all length before even starting to reload (1.750")

We trim to length, sizing affects body diameter and shoulder position (Although it does lengthen it a bit as well.). It is the shoulder position I would question if I had a separation, and test to make sure I have my sizer set up correctly. (Not automatically screwed all the way down as some instructions say to do.)

And once fired brass from someone else's gun may have been stretched close to separating already.

Or like Gunny said, it might have been a bad piece of brass.

 

[Howland]

I just undid one of my own like that in .223 Remington. A kinetic puller did the job without unloading the round behind it. This happened in a mini-14 with once fired cases. I attributed it to improper die adjustment as even though I was experienced with pistol and bolt actions, I was a newbie at reloading for an autoloader. I'm just getting back into reloading and have the Hornady comparator now to adjust shoulder height.

 

[loose noose]

I should have clarified the case length is done right after the resizing, I do use a single stage RCBS Rock Chucker that is about 40 years old, and the resizing die has at least the width of a credit card, prior to bottoming out, further I use a spray on lube and have noticed absolutely no unusual resistance in the downward stroke or any in the upward stroke. The more I think about it, I reckon it could have been a bad case, after all I've been reloading for 50+ years and never had a problem such as that before. Maybe Gunny was right!?

 

[mjsdwash]

is this YOUR once fired, or did you buy it with that description? I have had this happen twice, both cases were on their 6th loading, and loaded at max.

 

[Walkalong]

Maybe Gunny was right!?

Could very well be, or it was bad from the first firing in someone else's gun, but have you ever measured how far you are pushing the shoulders back? Or have you checked the sized cases with a case gauge like the Wilson or Sheridan?

Chances are you are fine, but wouldn't you like to know for sure?

 

[GunnyUSMC]

The 50cal round that I had case separation on was new Lake City military issue. It was the first and only time I ever had it happen to me.

 

[loose noose]

I do have a Wilson case gauge on my reloading bench along with other gauges. Further I purchased the ammo (once fired) new at my LGS. Those are the only ones that I signify as "once fired", my other brass is new mostly Remington, however I do have quite a few Federal. Incidentally after supper tonight I did check the fired cases along with new cases, using a dental pick with the curved end and could tell no difference. I've had a bad taste in my mouth for PMC brass from using my .44Magnum quite a few years ago, shooting brand new factory ammo and had 2 cases from the box split the mouth of the case. Needless to say I discarded the rest of the brass.

 

[Nature Boy]

There’s a big difference between one fired brass that you fired and once fired brass that someone else fired.

 

[MEHavey]

As two other posters have noted, you have no idea how many firings -- or what weapon -- those cases really had in their history.... unless YOU fired them in that history.

I'd counsel you run a paperclip test on those cases before using again.
`Cost you maybe 2 seconds per case.


.

 

[rsrocket1]

I've heard of so many "once fired" brass stories. "Once fired" might mean fired "fire once upon a time by someone who picked up range droppings" or "once fired" in a loose chambered machine gun.

The brass could have been cleaned to look like new and still be ready for a case head separation. As the other posters recommend, do the paper clip test on your remaining brass and be ready to disassemble what you've already loaded from this batch unless you want to run into the same fun (or worse).

I don't mind picking up range droppings, but I do check all my brass before reloading. It only takes a few seconds per case.

 

[loose noose]

When I say once fired, I'm the one who fired 'em once, as I stated I bought them new at my LGS and they were fired in that AR15, the only problem I see is the quality control at PMC, and I already checked the fired cases with the curved dental pick on the interior of the cases. As soon as find time I plan on using my Dremel tool to bisect them, incidentally I don't plan on reloading those cases, good riddance to bad cases.

 

[rsrocket1]

OK, I misunderstood. It sounded like you bought "once fired brass". You bought new ammo, fired it once yourself in the same gun, then reloaded it. You might want to check the headspace on your gun. Do you have a headspace gauge to see if the cases stretched after firing?

This is a picture of mine for .308 but they have assortment packs that will also contain .223


If your gun chamber is too long, you may have stretched the brass excessively even with one firing. Otherwise as you say, the PMC batch you got may be a turkey. My AR loves PMC Bronze ammo. My most accurate loads are with used PMC cases.

@ 100 yards (right targer). The 21.0g LT 30 was very accurate in my 16" Ruger American Ranch rifle, but not so great in the 20" AR

 

[loose noose]

[[/GALLERY]rsrocket1 this is what my target looked like after firing the remainder (18) of the PMC "once fired" casings, please note that they were from a bench at a 100 yards as measured by my Nikon Range Finder, at a 2" orange bull. I doubt seriously if there is any problem with my AR-15's headspace, and by the way I do have the go, no go, and field gauge as well as the Wilson gauge. Not only that I've used new Remington brass at least 5-6 loadings, but never maximum charges and never had a problem with that particular AR.

 

[cougar1717]

Below are the photos of the round in question, what happened?

Maybe Gunny was right!?

He is.
I'm not sure what you're reaching for OP, but it's just a jam caused by a case head separation on the first cartridge fired.

I just thought it strange how the 2nd round went into the casing of the first round, especially after it extracted the case head, the second round will be unloaded and I'll check the remaining cases with the pick as shown

This is exactly what it would do if this happened. The first round fired and the case separated - extracting the head, but leaving the remainder of the case in the chamber. As the bolt returned, it stripped a cartridge from the mag, but could not go into battery since part of the case was in the chamber. The second cartridge was wedged into the first case by the momentum of the BCG/recoil spring. Then, both pieces were extracted.

the only problem I see is the quality control at PMC

I find it difficult to entertain complaints here. New factory ammo was purchased and fired. The manufacturer has no control over how anyone uses or reloads the spent brass after that. It is not like they guarantee X number of firings. It is up to reloaders to protect themselves by inspecting their own brass and culling questionable pieces, regardless of number of firings.

IMO, it is much more common to have 223/5.56 brass fail via cracked necks or loose primer pockets. This example reminds every reloader to keep an eye out for the signs of case head separation. Since it seems that this rifle has a good track record of function and the rest of the ammo fired correctly, at this point there isn't much to be concerned about in terms of a chronic problem like excess headspace. (Unlike a firearm known for headspace problems, like a Century FAL or other example.)

 

[loose noose]

I just never had this happen to me before, and I've shot 100's of thousands of my reloaded ammo in different auto loading rifles/carbines. I generally only load single stage rifle cartridges, so each and every casing is visually inspected before, being reloaded, especially after having been resized. What I was reaching for and accomplished is an answer to my question, "what happened". Thank you for inquiring though!

 

[GunnyUSMC]

I just never had this happen to me before, and I've shot 100's of thousands of my reloaded ammo in different auto loading rifles/carbines. I generally only load single stage rifle cartridges, so each and every casing is visually inspected before, being reloaded, especially after having been resized. What I was reaching for and accomplished is an answer to my question, "what happened". Thank you for inquiring though!

There are so many different things that contribute to case separation so, sometimes a straight answer is hard to come by.
I have seen it happen on new factory loaded ammo and on cases with 2 or 3 reloads. Like I had said before, you may of just had a bad cartridge case. Sometimes it is due to the quality of the brass used to make the cases. It can also be caused by the type of load you cook up. The harder you push the shorter the life of your brass. And then sometimes the rifle, head space, and chamber, that can be the cause.
My father-in-law hand loaded 30-06 for years. He used US military brass. One day at the range while picking up our brass I saw that he had two or three pieces of brass that had almost separated. I asked him how many times he had reloaded the batch of cases. He said more then 5 and less then 10. I checked all of his brass when we got home and found that more then half were not safe to reload any more.
There are people like my father-in-law that will reload brass till it can no longer be used, and there are others that will only use brass for two or three reloads.
The bast advice is to always inspect your brass, no matter how new or old it is.