Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
How many times y'alls' mamas done tole y'all to not play with your food?
223 Bullet weights for 1:7 twist
- Thread starter dalepres
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sirgilligan
Member
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2010
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- 895
My rifle has 1:7 twist.
Recently zeroed rifle.
Shot 55 grain and 62 grain ammo.
Both maintained the same zero, no difference.
Didn't read all of the posts, too many.
Recently zeroed rifle.
Shot 55 grain and 62 grain ammo.
Both maintained the same zero, no difference.
Didn't read all of the posts, too many.
Not to throw gas on the fire or anything, I will concede that a defective/cheap bullet may fly apart, no matter the weight, if being fired out of any barrel, but is more likely to do so coming out of a fast twist barrel.
I've noticed references to cheap/thin jacketed bullets flying apart. If this is in reference to defective bullets, then there may just be a big misunderstanding here. If that is not the case, then I don't know which bullets are being referred to.
As I've said, I will never claim to have seen it all, but in my experience, the only bullets that have a chance of coming apart in a fast twist barrel are those of the 35 and 40gr variety (designed and manufactured to have thin jackets) that are intended for use as varminting rounds on small varmints and are also intended to be fired from bolt guns with 1:12 or 1:14 twist .223 barrels. To my knowledge, there aren't any bullets over the weight of 40gr that fit this description.
As a point of fact, the lighter varmint bullets that are in danger of falling apart are certainly not "cheap" in the sense that they are poorly made.
Personally, my general rule of thumb is that I don't buy bullets that are described as having a light construction. Everything else is fair game. Heck, I've sent lots (not thousands, but quite a few) of the bulk box 45gr varmint rounds down range out of my 1:7 and 1:8 twist barrels and never had any problems.
I do want to reiterate that 55gr projectiles are by no means "light" bullets. In fact, those shooting a 1:12 or 1:14 twist barrel would consider them to be their heavy weights.
In any case, we're just going around in circles here. I, like many others, have learned to take what they read on the internet with a grain of salt. What I usually do when I'm not sure about something is to find out for myself and that isn't hard to do with the issue at hand.
Take your rifle out to the range, grab yourself a box or two of 55gr ammo and pop them off at 25 yards or so and see what happens.
Jeff, if you had come in and said that you had an experience wherein you shot off a few rounds of 55gr ammo at a target that is relatively close where missing is a near impossibility and concluded that the bullets grenaded on you due to weird holes in the target or whatever, that would carry a lot more weight than referring to articles and then trying to shoe horn what is said in those articles into fitting what is being discussed.
I've noticed references to cheap/thin jacketed bullets flying apart. If this is in reference to defective bullets, then there may just be a big misunderstanding here. If that is not the case, then I don't know which bullets are being referred to.
As I've said, I will never claim to have seen it all, but in my experience, the only bullets that have a chance of coming apart in a fast twist barrel are those of the 35 and 40gr variety (designed and manufactured to have thin jackets) that are intended for use as varminting rounds on small varmints and are also intended to be fired from bolt guns with 1:12 or 1:14 twist .223 barrels. To my knowledge, there aren't any bullets over the weight of 40gr that fit this description.
As a point of fact, the lighter varmint bullets that are in danger of falling apart are certainly not "cheap" in the sense that they are poorly made.
Personally, my general rule of thumb is that I don't buy bullets that are described as having a light construction. Everything else is fair game. Heck, I've sent lots (not thousands, but quite a few) of the bulk box 45gr varmint rounds down range out of my 1:7 and 1:8 twist barrels and never had any problems.
I do want to reiterate that 55gr projectiles are by no means "light" bullets. In fact, those shooting a 1:12 or 1:14 twist barrel would consider them to be their heavy weights.
In any case, we're just going around in circles here. I, like many others, have learned to take what they read on the internet with a grain of salt. What I usually do when I'm not sure about something is to find out for myself and that isn't hard to do with the issue at hand.
Take your rifle out to the range, grab yourself a box or two of 55gr ammo and pop them off at 25 yards or so and see what happens.
Jeff, if you had come in and said that you had an experience wherein you shot off a few rounds of 55gr ammo at a target that is relatively close where missing is a near impossibility and concluded that the bullets grenaded on you due to weird holes in the target or whatever, that would carry a lot more weight than referring to articles and then trying to shoe horn what is said in those articles into fitting what is being discussed.
Justin
Moderator Emeritus
Tony, I agree with what you've said. I think the main issue here is that it seems that Jeff is taking something with a kernel of truth to it, that some very light bullets with thin jackets may come apart in flight if they are pushed too hard, and trying to argue that this is an issue for many commonly available rounds when shot through many commonly available rifles.
There's a world of difference between pushing a 45 grain bullet out of a 22-250 at velocities hard enough to cause the bullet to tear itself apart, and firing 55 grain Winchester Whitebox out of a garden variety AR15.
There's a world of difference between pushing a 45 grain bullet out of a 22-250 at velocities hard enough to cause the bullet to tear itself apart, and firing 55 grain Winchester Whitebox out of a garden variety AR15.
I suggest we let this die. Both sides have stated their ideas and their support, be that from first hand experience or the ideas of others. If there's anything else to talk about with .22 caliber bullets and twist lets move to it. Seems we've all said are side multiple times now.
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OldmanFCSA
Member
I read thru about 1/2 of the postings here and came to the decision that there is too much bullcrap being stated here.
Ignore the above - do your own research starting with the Hornady manual and others.
There are bullets out there that will blowup coming out the end of the barrel due to overspinning. I personally have had bullets turn into powder coming out of the barrel even in a 1:10 twist gun. The jacket was not torn or twisted, it came apart due to being overspun.
Back to your question - I assume you are reloading - I like the 75 to 80 grain bullets in my 1:7 twist upper, but have shot lighter with good results. The heavier bullets will need to be single loaded as typically they are loaded too long to feed from the magazine. DO NOT DROP into chamber and HIT BOLT RELEASE or you may have a SLAM-FIRE situation.
Good luck - have FUN - BE SAFE !!!
Ignore the above - do your own research starting with the Hornady manual and others.
There are bullets out there that will blowup coming out the end of the barrel due to overspinning. I personally have had bullets turn into powder coming out of the barrel even in a 1:10 twist gun. The jacket was not torn or twisted, it came apart due to being overspun.
Back to your question - I assume you are reloading - I like the 75 to 80 grain bullets in my 1:7 twist upper, but have shot lighter with good results. The heavier bullets will need to be single loaded as typically they are loaded too long to feed from the magazine. DO NOT DROP into chamber and HIT BOLT RELEASE or you may have a SLAM-FIRE situation.
Good luck - have FUN - BE SAFE !!!
Jeff F
Member
You will, and I have but not out of a .223/5.56. Seen it with a 22-250 and a 220 Swift that were pushed way fast with light pills and with a .224 Weatherby Mag again pushed hard and fast with light pills. Its a trip through the spotting scope seeing the bullets go poof. You can actually see it pretty well.
dubbleA
Member
This was when Jeff56 believed from his research that with the 55gr bullet shooting 400-500yds wasnt no big deal
From a March 12, 2011 post....
On March 14th he goes on to say this......
Jeff56 apparently went out and tried to prove his point( from what he researched and read) and found that in the real world, things dont always work out for the best and is now criticzing the 55gr
From 9-27-2011
Poor guy cant win for losing...amazing stuff
From a March 12, 2011 post....
Jeff56 said:
On March 14th he goes on to say this......
Jeff56 said:
Jeff56 apparently went out and tried to prove his point( from what he researched and read) and found that in the real world, things dont always work out for the best and is now criticzing the 55gr
From 9-27-2011
Jeff56 said:
Poor guy cant win for losing...amazing stuff
FlyinBryan
Member
no pun intended, right?
FlyinBryan
Member
do you reload jeff?
nevermind this question. just see below
nevermind this question. just see below
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FlyinBryan
Member
jeff, please take this the right way.
STOP!!!!!
lets start over man. i will be your first friend made here, but you have to stop, and start listening to the people that know what they are talking about, and im not talking about me.
you've gone so nuts you are gonna get banned if something doesnt give.
some of the people here that you are disrespecting terribly are competition shooters that have been on the cutting edge of handloading and shooting forever. some have been shooting, building barrels and wildcat cartridges for decades.
stop trying to teach, and start trying to learn, and i assure you this is all water under the bridge when the sun rises, and i will be you're first legit backer, but you have got to accept that some of these people just know more, some of these mods, some of these admins, and even some of these members are to be learned from, not taught.
ive seen members here, in ar matches i was running here 2+ years ago shoot these groups you would not believe man (see dubble-bubble above)
take it easy man. pm anyone you have really offended and just say "sorry man, i got out of hand"
ive done it. (in the last 24hrs in fact once)
think about it because this has gone completely "young and the restless"
if you chill, there is not a single person in this thread that wont just forget about it, but the guys that know what is what will simply not have bad info flying around these threads and just let it go.
just think about it.
STOP!!!!!
lets start over man. i will be your first friend made here, but you have to stop, and start listening to the people that know what they are talking about, and im not talking about me.
you've gone so nuts you are gonna get banned if something doesnt give.
some of the people here that you are disrespecting terribly are competition shooters that have been on the cutting edge of handloading and shooting forever. some have been shooting, building barrels and wildcat cartridges for decades.
stop trying to teach, and start trying to learn, and i assure you this is all water under the bridge when the sun rises, and i will be you're first legit backer, but you have got to accept that some of these people just know more, some of these mods, some of these admins, and even some of these members are to be learned from, not taught.
ive seen members here, in ar matches i was running here 2+ years ago shoot these groups you would not believe man (see dubble-bubble above)
take it easy man. pm anyone you have really offended and just say "sorry man, i got out of hand"
ive done it. (in the last 24hrs in fact once)
think about it because this has gone completely "young and the restless"
if you chill, there is not a single person in this thread that wont just forget about it, but the guys that know what is what will simply not have bad info flying around these threads and just let it go.
just think about it.
Brian Williams
Moderator Emeritus
I don't see that as calling you a liar, you made a statement so he checked it out and posted the results, those results were in your favor pretty much.
My question is how many targets did you shoot to get the score that you had. I pretty much go by the belief that you shoot the target once for practice and then shoot for a group.
Some times things happen. Have fun and don't get so upset when people do not have access to the great amount of knowledge you have.
You have made a statement that you are one of the best shooters on the planet. So prove it and show us some documented groups and or scores in national matches or competitions.
Jeff, the problem is that most everyone in here has agreed with what you quoted, but not what you've said. Many people have different definitions of accuracy. The guys on 6mmbr see changes of a .1" at 100 yards as a big deal. For them and their shooting type it is. For others, it doesn't mean much. Also, most everyone in here has said that the very thin jacketed bullets will come apart if pushed hard enough, especially the faster the twist.
What isn't agreed with is that a 55gr bullet will come apart fired from a .223 Remington. You did directly state that and people disagreed. I don't think anyone has said that absolute accuracy isn't affected. I think it's been much more that their practical accuracy isn't and that 55gr bullets don't come apart in a 1:9 or a 1:7 twist .223 Remington barrel. You did directly say to watch out for 55gr bullets coming apart. That was the comment that stuck with a lot of people. Had you then said, "nope the 55gr bullets won't come apart in a normal .223 Remington but if you push very light, thin jacketed bullets real hard they can come apart" I think we all would have agreed and moved on. What drives me nuts about this thread is that you don't take anyone else's point the way they are making it and instead twist it to be something different and often much more theoretical. But I'm sure I'm wasting my breath because clearly if I'm not a contributor at 6mmbr (which I am) then my opinion means nothing.
What isn't agreed with is that a 55gr bullet will come apart fired from a .223 Remington. You did directly state that and people disagreed. I don't think anyone has said that absolute accuracy isn't affected. I think it's been much more that their practical accuracy isn't and that 55gr bullets don't come apart in a 1:9 or a 1:7 twist .223 Remington barrel. You did directly say to watch out for 55gr bullets coming apart. That was the comment that stuck with a lot of people. Had you then said, "nope the 55gr bullets won't come apart in a normal .223 Remington but if you push very light, thin jacketed bullets real hard they can come apart" I think we all would have agreed and moved on. What drives me nuts about this thread is that you don't take anyone else's point the way they are making it and instead twist it to be something different and often much more theoretical. But I'm sure I'm wasting my breath because clearly if I'm not a contributor at 6mmbr (which I am) then my opinion means nothing.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
benzy2, that's a good closing statement. Thank you.
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