.223 Component Suggestions

Cokeman said:
I got a shell holder last week and some CCI 400 primers today.
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Cheesemaker said:
Are you planning to shoot these in an AR platform? If so, be aware that CCI 400 may not be the right choice for primers. CCI & Winchester make #41 primers specifically for ARs.
Some folks may say it makes no difference, some say it does. Do your research and understand the difference and make up your own mind.

Now, if you plan to shoot these in a bolt gun - carry on.
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Agreed! If you decide to try CCI 400's in an AR be sure to work up your load and watch for leakage around or through the primer. You need to also be aware that there may be a greater chance of having a slamfire.

I use CCI 450's and 41's in my AR, but I'm not running a hot load. My load is near max according to Hornady's 10th edition, but most (maybe all) of the other data I've looked at shows Hornady's data to be more of a mid-range load.

Try it and see how it works. Start low and work up your load carefully, watching those primers for leakage. They may or may not work for you. FWIW I also have some of the CCI 400's, but haven't used any yet. I do plan on trying them at some point, and if they don't work in the AR I can use them in a revolver or trade them off.

chris
 
Cokeman said:
I’m now looking at case prep. What is a good case trimmer to start with?
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I have a Lyman trimmer with a hand crank. I can trim fifty pieces of brass in less than ten minutes, and it trims very consistently. I seldom do more than a hundred pieces at a time, but if I did I would look into a faster (read motorized) trimmer.

chris
 
Cheesemaker said:
Are you planning to shoot these in an AR platform? If so, be aware that CCI 400 may not be the right choice for primers. CCI & Winchester make #41 primers specifically for ARs.
Some folks may say it makes no difference, some say it does. Do your research and understand the difference and make up your own mind.

Now, if you plan to shoot these in a bolt gun - carry on.
Click to expand...
FWIW, I have fired a couple thousand .223 loads with CCI-400 primers through a half dozen different AR’s as well as a couple bolt guns. The CCI-400’s do have a thinner cup than the 450’s, No. 41’s and BR-4’s, and will show pressure signs sooner, but if loads are kept to .223 levels they have been fine. I have never experienced a slam fire in any AR I have used, regardless of primer used. If you are loading mid-range plinking loads, you will be fine.
Be sure to run your brass through a full length sizing die prior to trimming. I guess that makes a die set your next purchase. I also clean my brass prior to sizing. I prefer liquid tumbling with a couple squirts of Dawn and 1/4 teaspoon of Lemishine in a FA tumbler, usually without stainless steel pins, but if the brass is extra cruddy, the pins do a better job. The pins also clean the primer pockets, if I choose to mess with them. I usually clean the primer pockets manually so I can also check them with a go-no go gauge to see if the pockets are loose or require crimp removal.
For trimming, I use a Frankford Arsenal case prep trimmer
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012719754?pid=628405
it only works on bottle neck cases since it spaces off a collet on the shoulder, but it does a good job and is great for a few hundred cases at a time. On sale right now, too. I did order an RCBS carbide cutting head for mine. Cuts better and lasts longer. I also have a Forster hand trimmer, which is okay, but a lot slower.
 
Cheesemaker said:
Are you planning to shoot these in an AR platform? If so, be aware that CCI 400 may not be the right choice for primers. CCI & Winchester make #41 primers specifically for ARs.
Some folks may say it makes no difference, some say it does. Do your research and understand the difference and make up your own mind.

Now, if you plan to shoot these in a bolt gun - carry on.
Click to expand...
Just to add, the Remington 7 1/2 primers are also recommended for the AR platform ammo.
All three also work well for the 30 Carbine too.
 
I’ve got 1000 CCI 400s now, so I hope I’m OK. I am going to shoot them in my ARs.
 
In most cases if fed from a magazine slam fires are very low. But if you drop a round into the chamber then release the bolt, ALL BETS ARE OFF. Test for your self and you will know. Make sure the gun is clean before testing. This will make it more likely to cause a slam fire. Just make sure it's pointed in a safe direction when you do this. Federal primers are soft and will be the worst case, excluding their AR line. It's all about the energy of the bolt and free float firing pin.
 
Are they even worth trying or should I sell them? Or can I use them in the 9mm or 38 special that I load?
 
They’re all I use except for one batch of CCI #41s I found when the CCI 400s were gone. They shoot better from both my 223/556 rifles than I’m capable of holding.
 
Nature Boy said:
Sierra 69gn SMKs and 25.2gn of Varget (if you can fInd it) or VV N140 as a substitute , which has been more available.

Shoot the above into one hole groups until you get board.
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Exactly the same accuracy load I use.If a decent 223 won't shoot with SMK's and Varget,it probably won't shoot anything else.One thing 223 and 308 have in common is they will usually shoot well with a lot of powder/bullet combinations.CFE223,IMR 8208,Winchester 748 are all good powders if you can't find Varget.
 
WVRJ said:
If a decent 223 won't shoot with SMK's and Varget,it probably won't shoot anything else..
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I just love generalized responses like this. I shoot a 223 in a modified BR league and when I started with this rifle I burned thru almost a whole lb of Varget looking for a load and never found one that was as consistent or accurate as what I found with TAC or A2460. Also I found that 69gr Barnes Match Burners and TAC produce the best results in this rifle. -.5MOA out to 300yds.
 
Cokeman said:
Are they even worth trying or should I sell them? Or can I use them in the 9mm or 38 special that I load?
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Even though I suggested a primer which is rated for AR ammo for an overly cautious suggestion I have used other primers.

I have use CCI-400 and CCI-450 primers without a problem and of course then CCI#41 too. I have also used the Remington 7 1/2 I spoke of above. While I said the CCI-400 primers might not be the best choice if that's all you have, use them. CCI primers are considered to be fairly hard to begin with. I don't think I would use Federal standard SRP though. Now for ammo in the M1 Carbine, a standard SRP would make me more concerned since it's floating firing pin is a markedly worse than an AR platform. (in my experience that is)
 
Cokeman said:
Are they even worth trying or should I sell them? Or can I use them in the 9mm or 38 special that I load?
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That's your choice, but if it were me I would try them. That's the only way you'll know if they work in your gun. I would only load a few though, maybe twenty or twenty-five, because you don't want to be pulling 100 rounds apart if they don't work.

You could try them in your pistol/revolver as well, they may work there too. Worst case is the handgun won't set them off or won't set them off reliably.

chris
 
Cokeman said:
Are they even worth trying or should I sell them? Or can I use them in the 9mm or 38 special that I load?
Click to expand...
FWIW, I loaded up 50 rounds of .223 ammo yesterday with CCI-400 primers, Hornady 55 gr HPBT bullets in PSD cases 10 rounds each with the following powder charges:
24.5 gr Ramshot TAC
24.0 gr Ramshot X-Terminator
24.0 gr Shooters World AR Plus
24.0 gr IMR-3031
25.0 gr Shooters World Precision Rifle
Fired 5 rounds of each in a 24” Stag Model 6 and 5 rounds each in a 20” Stag A2 with no issues whatsoever. Granted none of these loads were close to max 5.56 NATO pressures, but all functioned perfectly. With the IMR-3031 showing the highest velocity from both AR’s.
About the only primer I have never tried in my AR’s is the Remington 6 1/2, and coincidentally my buddy happened to be shooting his AR in 6.5 Grendel next to me and he had loaded his ammo with Remington 6 1/2 primers and did have one fired case with a pierced primer. Since that particular primer is only recommended by Remington for .22 Hornet and .30 carbine pressure levels, I have never tried them in .223 ammo. I tend to load my Federal 205’s in my .223 bolt guns, just as an abundance of caution. YMMV.
 
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The Rem 6 1/2 is not rated for high pressure lie the 223/556. It was designed for the Hornet which is a lot lower pressure round. Using 6 1/2 you will be blowing primers in 223/556 conditions.

The Rem 6 1/2 are good for Mag Pistol though.
 
Cokeman said:
I’ve got 1000 CCI 400s now, so I hope I’m OK. I am going to shoot them in my ARs.
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I wouldn’t.

The CCI 400 cup is too thin for high pressure rounds like .223

You may be able to get away with it, and others will tell you they work just fine in their loads, but be aware that you’re living on the ragged edge of acceptable.
 
Nature Boy said:
I wouldn’t.

The CCI 400 cup is too thin for high pressure rounds like .223

You may be able to get away with it, and others will tell you they work just fine in their loads, but be aware that you’re living on the ragged edge of acceptable.
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I can testify first hand at this. In my Savage with a Model 12 Varmint barrel I tried using them and immediately started seeing cratering with a load I had been using with CCI450 and Remington primers. Even had a few pierced. Went back to the magnum primers and it all went away.
 
Nature Boy said:
I wouldn’t.

The CCI 400 cup is too thin for high pressure rounds like .223

You may be able to get away with it, and others will tell you they work just fine in their loads, but be aware that you’re living on the ragged edge of acceptable.
Click to expand...
If that is the case, why does Speer publish a number of loads for .223 Remington using the CCI-400 primers? (As they have for decades). It is only recently that they have released loading data for 5.56 NATO that uses CCI No. 41 primers exclusively. IMHO, Cokeman will be fine, if he sticks with .223 Remington load data, particularly if he stays in the mid range or below. If he carefully works up from starting charges, he will see pressure signs sooner with CCI-400 primers than CCI-450, No. 41, or BR-4. These days, one makes do with what is available and affordable, as long as one exercises caution.
https://reloadingdata.speer.com/downloads/speer/reloading-pdfs/rifle/223_Remington_55.pdf
 
2ndtimer said:
If that is the case, why does Speer publish a number of loads for .223 Remington using the CCI-400 primers? (As they have for decades). It is only recently that they have released loading data for 5.56 NATO that uses CCI No. 41 primers exclusively. IMHO, Cokeman will be fine, if he sticks with .223 Remington load data, particularly if he stays in the mid range or below. If he carefully works up from starting charges, he will see pressure signs sooner with CCI-400 primers than CCI-450, No. 41, or BR-4. These days, one makes do with what is available and affordable, as long as one exercises caution.
https://reloadingdata.speer.com/downloads/speer/reloading-pdfs/rifle/223_Remington_55.pdf
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I can’t speak to Speer data, only my own experience and research.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/blanked-my-first-primer.854168/

This is worth the 5 minutes it takes to read.

https://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/primers-and-pressure-analysis/

I have a lot of CCI 400s and I use them for 9mm and 45 Auto. They work well for those loads in a pistol because the cup is thin.
 
kmw1954 said:
Could just accept first hand experience or you could find out first hand for yourself. The 223 is a high pressure round.
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Where is the cutoff for high vs low pressure? If I weren't on a reloading forum, how would I find first-hand experience? None of the published reloading sources I use say anything about avoiding CCI 400 SRP in 223 loads, nor does Hornady mention it for their 5.56 loads. CCI's packaging doesn't mention it either. The only thing I've found is for 300 BO in my Lyman manual. It does specify the use of Mil-Spec SRP.
 
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