.223 fmj bullets: Win or Rem? Powder?

[Gearhead Jim]

With the current shortage and price of .223/5.56 ammo, it's time to reload some of that brass I've got laying around.

Looking to duplicate the military M193 load, both Remington and Winchester 55 gr fmj bullets are available in bulk from Midway. If you know someplace with better prices, I'm all ears. But my biggest question is which of the two brands of bullets to use, there is only a small price difference. When loading pistol ammo I've generally felt that Winchester bullets were slightly more uniform, but no experience with rifle. Suggestions?

I'll sort my cases by weight, so the powder charge will vary slightly between the heavier (military) and lighter (civilian) cases. But what powder(s) do you recommend for these warm loads? There are probably 20 powders that could be used, but only a few will give the best combination of safety/accuracy/cost.

Thanks!

EDITED TO ADD:
These loads will be used in semi-autos, a Mini-14 18", AR-15 20", AR-15 16"
Port pressure could be an issue.

 

[Okiecruffler]

I've had pretty good results with Winchester bulk 55gr fmj's. Remingtons were terrible. Unconsistant in weight up to 3gr even the cannelure was in different spots and a couple crooked. I've got sub MOA loads with BL-C(2), H335, IMR4198, 2400 and Blue Dot. But those are all from a 14" barrel.

 

[Gearhead Jim]

Thanks for the info.
It may not matter, Midway is out of the Remington fmj and doesn't even list the Winchester fmj on their website.

I thought that my 2k rds of Win Q3131 would last me a long time. I was wrong.

 

[Okiecruffler]

Man, you're right. Just checked all my suppliers and everyone is out of stock on winchester. If you just want bulk bullets I've heard these are good. http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=0000422455SP500

 

[GunTech]

River Valley Ordnance had 62gn M855 bullets (new) for $65 per thousand.

 

[byf43]

I've gotten fantastic accuracy using H-335 in the .223, in my AR-HBAR!!!!!
Try www.natchezss.com for bulk bullets.

 

[Zeke Menuar]

Bulk Remchester bullets used to be available, but they have turned into an internet myth.
Hornady 55gr FMJ is still available. I've got some from Lock Stock & Barrel.
http://www.lockstock.com/
Hornady bullets are available at the Bi-Mart around the corner from my house, so I buy a box or two whenever I go there.

I'm getting 3200 fps from a 20" AR using Varget and Hornady 55gr FMJ BT bullets. Close enough to XM193 for me.

FWIW. Varget requires a drop tube. My drop tube is mounted directly under the powder measure to save a step in the process.
http://www.sinclairintl.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=REPMMP&item=FF021&type=store

ZM

 

[LotI]

The Hornady & Winchester bullets are boat-tail, the Remington is a flat-base. If you are shooting longer ranges the better b.c. of the Hornady or Winchester will suit you.

I have several thousand FMJ-BT from Hornady & Winchester sitting around waiting to be loaded and they are comparable quality. I stocked up two years ago when they were on sale for $50/1k. I also have 2k 55gr. Spire Points for the critters. I tried the Remington and wasn't happy with the accuracy.

I easily reached M193 velocities with H335, Hornady FMJ-BT & LC or WCC NATO brass. It's above Hodgdon max so I won't post it here. It's the max listed on Steve's reloading pages.

20" 1:9 barrel was fine with 3250 fps. Primers were flat but no other signs of pressure.

edit to add: I see BrassmanBrass has specials on new & pulldown bullets.

 

[NVMM]

Brassman has some bullets on sale. Bottom of page.
http://www.brassmanbrass.com/monthlyspecials.html

 

[Byron]

The Speer Manual #10 gives loads that come close to M193 using Olin 748.In my opinion the max load is too hot as shooting some years ago in summer, the heat caused the pressure to skyrocket and it locked the bolt on a bolt action. The Winchester bulk bullets appear to be M193 but the cannulure is in a different location on the bulk bullet. The Remington bullet is good. I have a friend who dropped a 10 point buck at 150 yards with a Mini and Remington UMC 55 grain FMJ. Byron

 

[LotI]

The Speer Manual #10 gives loads that come close to M193 using Olin 748

I'm curious about the powder charge and COL. I have loaded up to 28.0gr. Winchester 748 at 2.250". This is above all books loads I have seen. Velocity out of my 20" 1:9 barrel would only hit 3138fps...about 100fps short.

I have a friend who dropped a 10 point buck at 150 yards with a Mini and Remington UMC 55 grain FMJ

FMJ is not legal for hunting in WI. Not a good idea because of limited damage at 150 yards.

 

[strat81]

I never tried Remington bulk due to the absolutely terrible reviews they got at Midway's site. YMMV.

 

[Byron]

Lot1, I do not list charge weights as I am very dyslexic and could put down a wrong number. The #10 was very poplar and hopefully someone else may have it. I think you will be surprised though at the charge. If legal to scan, I could do that. Moderator, does this break any copywright laws?
The 20'barrel you have,is it an AR with chromed lined barrel or from a bolt action? If not Chromed lined,you would be approaching factory specs.
I was surprised my friend used fmj as it is not legal in TN. I do recall some years ago on The Firing Line, ahunter got permission from the Florida Game Dept to eliminate deer from orange groves and he used the M193 and the pictures were unreal as to damage. I use the M193 in 1968 as a 20 year old infantryman in Nam. It is devistating. Byron

 

[LotI]

Lot1, I do not list charge weights as I am very dyslexic and could put down a wrong number. The #10 was very poplar and hopefully someone else may have it. I think you will be surprised though at the charge. If legal to scan, I could do that. Moderator, does this break any copywright laws?
The 20'barrel you have,is it an AR with chromed lined barrel or from a bolt action? If not Chromed lined,you would be approaching factory specs.

I think posting a page from a book without permission could get you in trouble so you don't have to bother. I know I've seen 30.0gr listed elsewhere but I got pressure signs at 28.0 and stopped.

I have a 20" non-chrome lined barrel with a 1:9" twist. LC M193('04 headstamp) was chronographed at 3233fps out of my barrel. Q3131A (WCC03)shoots at 3232fps. I was about 100fps short with my max load of W748.

I was able to get to NATO velocities with H335 so I stopped working with W748.

disclaimer: Don't try these loads yourself!