.223 Hollow points?

[tlhelmer]

I bought some Silver Bear 55 gr. hollow point bullets today at a local gun store. That made me question if HP .223 bullets actually expand or is it just a marketing ploy?

 

[yankytrash]

...and you'll never know either. You'll miss the ballistic gelatin, woodchuck, piece a wood, or whatever you're using as a test case, at any yardage, with Silver Bears in an AR.

 

[motorep]

Hollow point and soft point 223s are very accurate in my rifles. It has to do with the weight distribution of the bullet. FMJs are cheap, but don't group worth a darn in my ARs or my LTR Remington. A good example is Sierra's 69 gr boattail hollowpoint. Not familiar with the Silver Bears..

 

[Greybeard]

If the Silver Bears, don't work out ya might try some of the Winchester 45 grain JHPs in 40-round "Value Pack". Claimed 3600 fps and a favorite load for my Mini-14. Expansion-wise, sorry, can't help ya much cause the last prarie dog hit with one was to messy to check.

 

[CWL]

Some hollowpoints -like on the .223, are not for expansion but to provide better flight performance.

Don't ask me how it works.

 

[benEzra]

That made me question if HP .223 bullets actually expand or is it just a marketing ploy?

Oh yes, they expand. Since most .223 JHP's originated as varmint loads, they are designed for immediate expansion even on small, thin-skinned critters like prairie dogs, etc. (I'd say that if a bullet designer CAN'T get a bullet traveling in excess of Mach 3 to expand when it hits a fluid medium, he needs to find another line of work!)

Disciples of Dr. Martin Fackler/IWBA tend to criticize .223 JHP's as expanding TOO readily, trading penetration for rapid energy dump and less risk of overpenetration--e.g., see Gary K. Roberts, "The Wounding Effects of 5.56mm/.223 Carbines Compared with 12 ga. Shotguns and Pistol Caliber Weapons Using 10% Ordnance Gelatin as a Tissue Simulant" in _Police Marksman_, July/August 1998), but I tend to disagree on a variety of grounds. (The author does have some good info on various SP and FMJ loads, but dismisses the lightweight JHPs out of hand.)

As for me, the "home defense" magazine for my mini-14 is loaded with Federal 40-grain JHP's.

 

[Steve Smith]

It totally depends on the particular bullet in question. As others have noted, some .223 hp bullets are not designed to expand, while others are designed to practically disintegrate on impact. Try it on some small pests or a Fackler box. (Note I'm not a Fackler disciple, but the box will answer your question)

 

[444]

As Steve mentioned, the design of the bullet is what determines if it expands or not. .223 hollow points are certainly not a gimmick. Yes they do expand. When fired at close range they usually pretty much completely fragment. When shooting varmints with .223 HP, I have found that within 50 yards, most smallish varmints are blow to pieces. Past 50 yards it is very difficult to find a wound at all, they simply fall over dead; instantly.
Federal hollow points are in use by some law enforcement agencies.

 

[Ironbarr]

In my reading, I understood the .223 fragments pretty much in anything it penetrates. No?

Should I be using HP for urban varmints?

BTW, is that the Win (white box) 40 rounds at WallyMart for $7.95?

.

 

[Greybeard]

Ironbar - I think it varies with fps. Generally, I think, not much, if any fragmentation, beyond around 200 yards. I generally keep a mag of each loaded with JHPs, SPs, and FMJs. The Winchester 45 grainers mentined above are favorite load. Reasonably priced and accurate enough from my Mini 14. The ones mentioned above are in "white box" (USA logo). It seems like I paid somewhat more than $7.95 for last box bought at Bass Pro shop. Local range prohibits FMJs, supposedly due to low shots with them being prone to sometimes "skip" over berm.

 

[Art Eatman]

Never having heard of "Silver Bear", is that bullets? Or, cartridges?

Dunno nuttin 'bout the thickness of the jackets on military bullets. For "real" .22 centerfires, you have two styles: Low-ish velocity, like the .22 Hornet; and high-velocity like the .22-250 and .220 Swift. (And the 100+ years old .22 Savage Hi-Power is right in there. )The .223 is on the bottom end of high-vel.

Sticking with high-velocity, most of the bullets are designed to either come all unglued or expand dramatically at velocities above around 2,200 to 2,500 ft/sec. The jacket has to be thick enough to withstand the forces of a high rotational speed. (Which is why you don't use Hornet bullets in a Swift: Thin jacket.)

Anyhow, the Sierra book sez a 55-grain .223 drops below 2,200 ft/sec at around 250 yards.

Art

 

[Steve Smith]

To add to all of this:

I know that none of the manufacturers put any thought toward what happens to their HP match bullet after impact. They'll tell you that. Regarding the rest of their line, the big manufacturers will often design the HP bullets to expand or fragment. The low quality bullets or the ones coming from off-brand manufacturers have no guarantees. I'm sure that they don't put the time and money into R&D like the big guys like Sierra, Hornady, Speer, and the other big names.

 

[twoblink]

CWL,

How it works (and why hollow points are so accurate) is that the mass is on the outside, and so you get a good (stable) rotation, which gives you a straighter flight path and thus a more accurate round.

 

[cratz2]

Not having used the Silver Bears, take this post for what it's worth... not much. I doubt a whole lot of effort went into the design or construction of the Silver Bear bullets. Probably a marketing ploy. Also, I wouldn't expect a lot of expansion from a HP match bullet as Steve Smith points out.

Only thing I've ever shot with the Winchester value pack 45 Gr bullets is crow and they died pretty dead but nothing as spectaclar as VMax or Ballistic Tips. Now if you really want to see some explosive results. Try shooting crow with some of the 40 Gr VMax. The crow basically vaporizes into red mist, there's nothing resembling a bird left. On the ground it looks like a paint can exploded. Very impressive... just remember these are for very small critters. I doubt if considerable penetration would be more than 4 or 5 inches on a man/deer sized target.

 

[Greybeard]

The "Silver Bear" ammo, I believe, is imported from Russia. I have bought several boxes of it (at Cheaper Than Dirt) in 9X18 for Makarov pistols. Only around $6 a box for JHPs. Not sure of the QC in .223 loads, but their offering in 9X18 does allow for fairly cheap practice with a possible identical "carry" round. The stuff has run 100% with good accuracy in both of my Maks.

 

[Ironbarr]

I'll second Greybeard's 9x18 (Makarov) experience re Silver Fox... and it ran well too. Got mine at a gun show for under $5, but now out--- guess I'll have to go to the next show, huh? Don't know about the SilBear in .223. I did buy a box of S&B .223 but haven't tried it yet.

There seems to be more .223 rounds available than I'd expected. Are there any that SHOULD NOT be fired from an AR-15 HBAR (SS barrel)?

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