.223 or 5.56?
- Thread starter DynoDan1
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Good to know. I got a bunch of PSD. A close second is LC. And of course there's stuff I have know clue about.
I'll try all of it eventually and hope to find what works the best, like I've done with my .308 rifles.
I don't do any type of competitions, just sit at a bench and shoot the best I can shoot.
I'm not the best for sure but compared to a lot of folks that show up at the range I'd consider myself not too shabby.
With that being said, it's almost strictly with my bolt actions and my 10/22LR semi-auto.
I'm completely new to the AR platform so I expect there to be some "teething pains"
I'll let folks know what the results are, good and bad. (probably mostly bad
)
Gone Hiking
Member
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2019
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- 177
While it's true you can spin a light jacket off a light bullet with faster twists, a 1:7 is certainly fine with lighter bullets in most instances. Case in point; I made a trade a couple of years ago for several hundred new-old-stock 52 grn SMKs. After working up a load in my 20" AR Service Rifle with a 1:7 twist match barrel and a 4x scope, I was getting 5-shot, 0.5" groups. I used them for local 100-yd High Power matches (and often won) until I ran out. I used 25.6 grns of Varget and CCI 41's with Dillon dies if anyone is wondering.
Dang dude!!!
That's some purty durn good shootin' there!!!
Good job!!
I just ordered a ton of stuff on-line to help me get started on reloading for my AR and 1911.
Hopefully, with the advice given to me here, along with what my buddy has offered, I'll have some good news to report (probably not
)I'll post the good and bad pictures too!
stillquietvoice
Contributing Member
You sir need to reread the high road rules of conduct
Which excludes most FMJ, but with most HPs, SPs, plastic tipped bullets (quality bullets with good bases), that shouldn't be an issue.
Yep, we don't insult other posters here, especially when they are only trying to help in their own way. And when they are not, well, some things aren't worth responding to.
ballman6711
Member
^^^^This. You may get sub-MOA with your rifle using lighter bullets (even FMJ) but you won't know for sure until you try.
I worked with a guy that shot his AR-15 every week or two at 100 yards. He mentioned to me that he just couldn't get perfect groups, had fliers, etc.... I asked his twist rate and bullet choice, it was 1/7 with 55gr FMJ's. I suggested he try heavier bullets as well as hollow points. He did and his groups tightened up a lot. Not bughole tight, but it cut his groups in half.
Given your rifle and your goals, I would suggest trying a few of each different type of bullet, maybe 100 of each, and then focus on the best two or three. I think you'll find the heavier bullets will be more accurate, as will the higher quality bullets, but again you'll just have to try them and see for yourself.
Best of luck and keep us posted.
chris
Yep, we don't insult other posters here, especially when they are only trying to help in their own way. And when they are not, well, some things aren't worth responding to.
Who got their panties twisted up?
ballman6711
Member
I agree, but some guns shoot everything equally as well (or as bad). I have had a few guns that wouldn't shoot better than "minute of can" at 10 yards no matter what I tried, and others that have just liked everything I've tried in them.
Every gun is different.
chris
Varminterror
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- Jul 17, 2016
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- 14,955
@DynoDan1 - load some 50grn Vmax’s over 27.3” grn Varget to book length. If it doesn’t shoot MOA or slightly better, you can be certain there’s something broken in the rifle, or the reloading process. I was handed that load over 20yrs ago, and have since fired it in literally hundreds of AR barrels in my own and customer rifles. It may not be the pinnacle of potential precision in every rifle, but it has shot well in every barrel I have ever tested with it which could be made to shoot well at all.
Shooting MOA or sub in an AR is much more difficult than a bolt gun, but getting there really isn’t some insurmountable hurdle - it really just comes down to pushing a good bullet down a good barrel, and using a good enough trigger, build, and support to allow a good enough shooter to avoid screwing it up.
I wish I did better taking photos, but here are a couple relatively CHEAP rifles I built with 1:7” barrels and corresponding targets. Nothing but generic 50grn bullets - Vmax for one and JHP’s for the older rifle. (*note - the group in the second rifle with the red dot sight was fired during function and accuracy testing with a 2.5-16x50mm Bushnell Elite 6500, not the red dot. My astigmatism and red dots don’t play, and I can’t see for crap anymore, so I don’t shoot RDS’s for precision). There’s nothing special here, and I’m no magic marksman. Just free floating, quality barrels, with decent triggers, and decent bullets flying down decent bores. Both of these are 18”, which means I’m about 80-90fps and 9,000 rpm faster than you’d be with a 16” barrel. If memory serves, the first rifle totaled around $600 before optics, and the second rifle around $800. Black Hole Weaponry and Tactical Ordnance barrels, respectively. RRA NM and Larue MBT triggers, also respectively. Again, no magic, no unattainable skill, but some of us have done, and have been doing it for a long time. I built the first rifle pictured in 2015 for a rancher in Utah, and the second rifle in 2019 for a retired Sheriff’s Deputy.
*Group fired with 2.5-16x50mm Bushnell, not with RDS pictured.
This one was built for an engineer out of Minnesota, and is chambered in 6.5 Grendel. It shot about the same 2/3-3/4moa at 100yrds with factory Black ammo, and held onto roughly 1moa pictured here at 875 yards on a 12”x 20” 66% IPSC - although the 78fps ES of the ammo lot meant it sagged a bit more vertically than it should have. Black Hole Weaponry barrel, Geissele G2s-E trigger.
There’s no magic to shooting ~1moa or slightly better with AR’s. It’s just not very easy if you limit yourself with a cheap rack grade chrome lined barrel and a clamshell handguard, firing ball ammo.
Shooting MOA or sub in an AR is much more difficult than a bolt gun, but getting there really isn’t some insurmountable hurdle - it really just comes down to pushing a good bullet down a good barrel, and using a good enough trigger, build, and support to allow a good enough shooter to avoid screwing it up.
I wish I did better taking photos, but here are a couple relatively CHEAP rifles I built with 1:7” barrels and corresponding targets. Nothing but generic 50grn bullets - Vmax for one and JHP’s for the older rifle. (*note - the group in the second rifle with the red dot sight was fired during function and accuracy testing with a 2.5-16x50mm Bushnell Elite 6500, not the red dot. My astigmatism and red dots don’t play, and I can’t see for crap anymore, so I don’t shoot RDS’s for precision). There’s nothing special here, and I’m no magic marksman. Just free floating, quality barrels, with decent triggers, and decent bullets flying down decent bores. Both of these are 18”, which means I’m about 80-90fps and 9,000 rpm faster than you’d be with a 16” barrel. If memory serves, the first rifle totaled around $600 before optics, and the second rifle around $800. Black Hole Weaponry and Tactical Ordnance barrels, respectively. RRA NM and Larue MBT triggers, also respectively. Again, no magic, no unattainable skill, but some of us have done, and have been doing it for a long time. I built the first rifle pictured in 2015 for a rancher in Utah, and the second rifle in 2019 for a retired Sheriff’s Deputy.
*Group fired with 2.5-16x50mm Bushnell, not with RDS pictured.
This one was built for an engineer out of Minnesota, and is chambered in 6.5 Grendel. It shot about the same 2/3-3/4moa at 100yrds with factory Black ammo, and held onto roughly 1moa pictured here at 875 yards on a 12”x 20” 66% IPSC - although the 78fps ES of the ammo lot meant it sagged a bit more vertically than it should have. Black Hole Weaponry barrel, Geissele G2s-E trigger.
There’s no magic to shooting ~1moa or slightly better with AR’s. It’s just not very easy if you limit yourself with a cheap rack grade chrome lined barrel and a clamshell handguard, firing ball ammo.
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