I finally got to shoot some of my first .223 reloads this weekend. Everything worked perfect with no issues. When I got home I broke down my AR to clean it and noticed some really small copper or brass fragments (not quite sure) that fell out of the bolt key tube. Has any one ever experienced this? I have about 800 rounds downrange with this rifle and have never noticed this before.
.223 Reload Issue?
- Thread starter jeadams
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rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Can't quite imagine how reloads would cause brass or copper flakes to get inside the gas system.
Unless the gas port in the barrel is scraping jacket metal off of the bullets you are using and blowing it back through the gas tube?
Is it possible it didn't come out of the gas key?
Maybe case head smear is carving brass flakes off the case heads due to high pressure loads?
Look at the fired cases for any signs of case smear marks on them.
rc
Unless the gas port in the barrel is scraping jacket metal off of the bullets you are using and blowing it back through the gas tube?
Is it possible it didn't come out of the gas key?
Maybe case head smear is carving brass flakes off the case heads due to high pressure loads?
Look at the fired cases for any signs of case smear marks on them.
rc
Now that you mentioned it, these were some pulled military 62gr projectiles that had some pull marks on them. I inspected the cases and they all looked good. The fragments came out of the gas key when I tapped the bolt on the palm of my hand. I will try to get some pics of them when I get home.
Thanks RC.
Thanks RC.
Wolfman Bill
Member
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Afternoon jeadams
If you chamfered the case mouths did you get all the brass flakes out of the cases before putting the powder in?
I presume your AR is a DI and not a piston gun, if so you get power residue into the bolt and bolt carrier area so maybe some brass flakes with it.
If you chamfered the case mouths did you get all the brass flakes out of the cases before putting the powder in?
I presume your AR is a DI and not a piston gun, if so you get power residue into the bolt and bolt carrier area so maybe some brass flakes with it.
I think that wolfman Bill hit it on the head! I used an air hose to blow each case out after trimming them. I have attached some photos of the fragments, sorry for the quality. I also looked at the fragments with a magnifying glass and they look more like brass material and not copper.
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3 by jeadams83, on Flickr
2 by jeadams83, on Flickr
1 by jeadams83, on Flickr
3 by jeadams83, on Flickr
2 by jeadams83, on Flickr
1 by jeadams83, on Flickr
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rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Looks like unburned ball powder granuals too me!
You could expect to find that inside the bolt carrier if you got some really dirty burning reloads for whatever reason.
What type & how much powder are you using with the 62 grain bullets?
rc
You could expect to find that inside the bolt carrier if you got some really dirty burning reloads for whatever reason.
What type & how much powder are you using with the 62 grain bullets?
rc
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rcmodel
Member in memoriam
22.5 grains H-335 is a starting load with a 63 grain Sierra bullet.
It is only giving around 41,000 CUP, and probably isn't developing enough pressure to burn completely before it gets to the gas port in the barrel.
Mag primers will also help complete ignition when using ball powder like H-335.
You can go on up to 25.0 grains MAX / 50,000 CUP and probably get it to burn better.
rc
It is only giving around 41,000 CUP, and probably isn't developing enough pressure to burn completely before it gets to the gas port in the barrel.
Mag primers will also help complete ignition when using ball powder like H-335.
You can go on up to 25.0 grains MAX / 50,000 CUP and probably get it to burn better.
rc
seeking_coyotes
Member
What is the make and model of the gun?
It is a Bushmaster 5.56 M4A3 Carbine. I think I may have found the problem after inspecting all the cases last night.
10 cases out of the 80 I reloaded seem to have been over charged some how. The fragments that came out of the bolt key seem to be pieces of the anvil of the primer. On these 10 cases the primers seem to have backed out just a little and they have the same type of fragment stuck in the strike mark of the primer. I can look thru the mouth of the case and see a little light coming thru the primer. I will post some pics when I get home.
10 cases out of the 80 I reloaded seem to have been over charged some how. The fragments that came out of the bolt key seem to be pieces of the anvil of the primer. On these 10 cases the primers seem to have backed out just a little and they have the same type of fragment stuck in the strike mark of the primer. I can look thru the mouth of the case and see a little light coming thru the primer. I will post some pics when I get home.
DANNY-L
Member
Looks like unburned powder to me also,take a few pieces and put a match on it to see if it flames up.
Its defiantly not un-burnt powder. These fragments have weight to them and sink to the bottom of a jar of water. They also have a brass color to them in certain areas that are hard to tell in the photos. Also notice the size of the fragments compared to the .204 diameter projectile. H-335 powder granules are not close to this size.
These are some pics of the head of the cases. Please notice the black object where the firing pin struck the primer. These are the same size of the fragments that fell out of the bolt key of my AR. These were loaded with CCI 400 primers.
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These are some pics of the head of the cases. Please notice the black object where the firing pin struck the primer. These are the same size of the fragments that fell out of the bolt key of my AR. These were loaded with CCI 400 primers.
DANNY-L
Member
Looks like a pressure issue causing the pierced primers. Thats what mine looked like when I mistakenly loaded some .227 dia. thinking they were .224
halogrinder
Member
No bueno!
243winxb
Member
Maybe not the right primer? If you cant use the Rem. , then way would the CCI be OK ?? 
I just bought 3000 CCI @ 19.95 per 1000.
I just bought 3000 CCI @ 19.95 per 1000.
243winxb
Member
My bolt face is pock marked from using Rem. 6 1/2. Could not get CCI Mag at the time.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Neither will yours if you keep shooting it and piercing primers.
You may have already fried the end of the firing pin.
Check it to see if the rounded end is rough and eroded.
If it is, you will continue to pierce primers until you put a new FP in it.
I am at a loss to figure out why those primers look so flat and with holes in them?
Your load 22.5grs H335 / 62 is a low pressure starting load and should not be doing that.
I'd check your scales with test weights and see if they are weighing what you think they are weighing.
rc
You may have already fried the end of the firing pin.
Check it to see if the rounded end is rough and eroded.
If it is, you will continue to pierce primers until you put a new FP in it.
I am at a loss to figure out why those primers look so flat and with holes in them?
Your load 22.5grs H335 / 62 is a low pressure starting load and should not be doing that.
I'd check your scales with test weights and see if they are weighing what you think they are weighing.
rc
243winxb
Member
Looks bad, but does not hurt a thing. Had some Rem 9 1/2 large rifle primers blow out on the edge. Had nothing to do with pressure. Just bad primers. Looks like this internet photo.
unwise11
Member
I use CCI and Winchester, CCI for .308, and Winchester for .223, try some different primers, they are cheap if you buy them by the 100's.
Thanks RC. I defiantly intend on checking my scale before I start my next loads. That’s the only thing that I can figure went wrong with this last batch. Like I said it was only 10 out of the 80 rounds that look like this, the others look fine. When I cleaned the rifle the firing pin looked ok.
243winxb
Member
Primer Seated to High in Pocket- Result- Pierced Primers
jeadams, the crimp on the primer pockets may need to be removed if you have not done it already or it needs to be swaged larger & deeper. When you place a straight edge across the top of the head, over a seated primer, the primed should be lower.
There is a pressure sign on the case head also. But this could be from when the factory ammo was fired. I just shot some XM193F factory. The web area expanded .0015" on firing. Hot Loads.
jeadams, the crimp on the primer pockets may need to be removed if you have not done it already or it needs to be swaged larger & deeper. When you place a straight edge across the top of the head, over a seated primer, the primed should be lower.
There is a pressure sign on the case head also. But this could be from when the factory ammo was fired. I just shot some XM193F factory. The web area expanded .0015" on firing. Hot Loads.
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243winxb
Member
Seems we still don't know why??
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