.223 Remington . . . Improved?

[NorCalRifleman]

How much of an improvement can be made to a .223? I'm not talking about a rifle chambered for .223 AI from the get go, but one that is opened up to allow for fireforming brass. I don't know if that creates limitations but I just thought I'd specify.
I've heard people say that the benefits are negligible and others say that it aproaches the performance of a .22-250. Anyone with experience rechambering then optimizing loads for a .223 improved?

 

[Vern Humphrey]

The rule of 4 applies -- a 4% increase in case volume will give you a 1% increase in velocity. It's impossible to "improve" a modern cartridge like the .223 to the point where the increase in velocity won't be lost in normal shot-to-shot variation.

 

[NorCalRifleman]

So it's pointless?

Sounds like the .223 AI is a waste of effort, not even a "+P" difference. So what's the point?

 

[Vern Humphrey]

In years past when no one had chronometers, wildcatters made fantastic claims for their developments. When cheap chronometers became available, the claims were scaled back a little. When cheap pressure-measuring equipment became available, most wildcat claims disappeared.

The "improved" velocity advantages, if they existed at all, came at the expense of loads way over-pressure.

I had a friend who had an M1917 Enfield rebarreled for a certain wildcat. He used P.O. Ackley's reloading data (all that was available for that particular wildcat.) His comment was, "You coulda reloaded those cases with shotgun primers!"

 

[Jon Coppenbarger]

The highpower shooters are using the 223 ackley improved.
Folks with the 24" spaceguns opt for that caliber quite often.
I shoot my service rifles most of the time but during the off season I use the 223 AI in a spacegun. I will just shoot regular 223 rem. in the off hand and the rapids and then use the fire formed cases for 600 yards. It allows me to safely push a 75 Berger vld at around 3100 with no problems.

 

[FatalMove]

There's already an improved .223 its called .22-250.

LOL

 

[Outlaws]

There's already an improved .223 its called .22-250

Ain't that the truth.

But if anyone wants something closer to the kick of a .223, but 'improved', there is the .204 Ruger.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Cartridges like the .223, .243, .308, etc. lack any real degree of body taper, so there is little room for improvement. However, cartridges based on the .30-06 or 8mm/7mm Mauser have significant body taper and sloping shoulders; improving these cases often yeilds 100 FPS+ average velocity increases.

 

[esheato]

I've got a 223 AI. I normally receive a 7% increase in case capacity upon the initial caseforming. Looking at the graph below, I can reach over 3850 fps without any signs of pressure and I've hit 4,000 fps with flat primers.

Cooper MTV, 1:14 twist
R-P brass, Federal Gold Medal Match primer, Temp 65 degrees
Sierra BlitzKing 40 grain, OAL 2.955"" (Sinclair comparator)
3800 FPS REQUIRED

Charge---Velocity----FPS Diff.---ES----MAD----MAD %
27.0------3660.1-----00.0------96.2---22.2----0.60%
27.1------3688.6----+28.3------83.9---20.7----0.56%
27.2------3699.4----+10.8------81.7---22.3----0.60%
27.3------3707.5----+8.1-------65.3---14.5----0.39%
27.4------3662.7-----44.8------108.2--27.5----0.75%
27.5------3674.1----+11.4------87.6---24.5----0.66%
27.6------3667.1------7.0------70.7---19.8----0.53%
27.7------3765.0----+97.9------79.5---23.9----0.63%
27.8------3766.4-----+1.4------74.1---21.4----0.56%
27.9------3753.1-----13.3------74.3---20.2----0.53%
28.0------3782.9----+29.8------98.7---29.2----0.77%
28.1------3800.2----+17.3------86.9---19.8----0.52%
28.2------3884.1----+45.5------171.1--39.6----1.01%

Considering that I'm only burning 28 grains of propellant compared to the 40 grains with the 22-250, I'd say I'm ahead of the game. Oh, you want to compare it to the 204? On MidwayUSA, Sierra sells their 20 caliber 39 grain BlitzKing in 100 round boxes only while you can purchase 500 round bulk packs in 22 caliber all day long. Cost of components was a major factor in my decision. Brass, bullets, and propellant add up after time and I wanted an economical caliber. Just for the record, I've still got a couple bucks in the bank and nearly 4,500 rounds through that barrel since 2004.

I think it's a nice step up in performance for a minor increase in effort and propellant.

I certainly wouldn't brush it off as being insignificant.

Ed

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Looking at the graph below, I can reach over 3850 fps without any signs of pressure and I've hit 4,000 fps with flat primers.

Conventional pressure signs are extremely unreliable. I'll bet if you put a strain gauge on that rifle, you'd find you're generating pressures way above the SAAMI maximum.

 

[MachIVshooter]

I've got a 223 AI. I normally receive a 7% increase in case capacity upon the initial caseforming. Looking at the graph below, I can reach over 3850 fps without any signs of pressure and I've hit 4,000 fps with flat primers.

From my 24" Howa, I have loaded Blitzkings to an average of 3,842 FPS using 30.0 grs. W748 in a non improved case and see only slight cratering with Winchester primers, which are soft; CCI primers are fine.

If I need to go faster, I'll switch up to the .220 swift. I maintain that the .223 is among several cartridges that exhibit minimal, if any, gain from improving.

 

[NorCalRifleman]

MachIVshooter,
How do you like your Howa? I'm looking at getting a vermint type in .223 with the Boyd's stock.

 

[MachIVshooter]

How do you like your Howa? I'm looking at getting a vermint type in .223 with the Boyd's stock.

It's a great gun, especially for the money. Mine is the black-on-black M1500 Varminter and I paid $369 for it at Wal-Mart 4 years ago. I plopped a Bushnell 6.5-18x 50mm scope on it, turned the trigger down to 8.2 ounces and proceeded to shoot MOA or better with all but a couple types of ammo. With some of my 40 gr. handloads, I have coaxed average groups under .7 MOA @ 100 yards. Considering that I have just over $500 in the package, you can't do much better.

To be honest, I only bought it because I was there, it was there, and I had a paycheck burning a hole in my pocket. I likely wouldn't have given Howa a second look otherwise, as I am quite loyal to Remington when accuracy is the object. But I have definitely not regretted it. I now have a Rem. 700 LVSF in .17 Rem that is my primary, but the Howa usually comes along, either for a buddy or as a back-up when the .17 gets too warm.

*FYI, turning the triggers down that far renders the safety inop. Since mine is strictly a bench or bi-pod varmint gun, no big deal. But if yours is to be carried about loaded, I recommend keeping the pull weight/travel up enough to use the safety.

 

[Max Velocity]

13 Percent Increase

Interesting article on the 223 AI in Guns Magazine, April 2003 by Dave Anderson

Pumping up the .223

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_4_49/ai_98124201/pg_1

 

[Vern Humphrey]

The link doesn't work for me, but the Rule of 4 applies to the .223 just as to all other cartridges -- a 4% increase in case capacity yieldes a 1% increase in velocity. To get a 13% increase, you'd need a 52% increase in case volume.

 

[Hemicuda]

Yesterday I went to my gunstore and picked up MY .223 improved... it is ACTUALLY called a Savage Mod. 10 GXP, in .22-250 Remington...

WHY would you build up a custom gun that you HAVE to fireform brass for, and STILL not get above the 4000 FPS that I am getting with cheapo 40 round value packs of Winchester white box 45 grainers?

I am amassing emptyy brass for reloading, while seaeoning the bbl, with cheap white-box winchesters, and am also getting sub-moa groups at 4110 FPS average velocity, with cheap ammo...

You will have alot more invested and not do the same thing, with a .223 AI... (see velocities listed in the above posts, for the .223 AI...)