.223 rifle sugguestions out to 600 yards

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Currently deployed to the sand box (my second home, lol) (U.S.Army MP).
My welcome home present is going to be a rifle. (Still have sometime).
I'm looking for a .223, 20" barrel, bolt action.
Main purpose will be varmit and range shooting out to 600 yards at a local club upon return.
For the rifle, scope, rings, base I would like to keep it at $1500.00.
I have found the three rifles below and open to others.
Open to any ideas on rifle, rings, scopes and over the counter ammo. Thanks in advance.
Model 700™ XCR™ Compact Tactical
Remington 700 Police LTR 223 20 HB
Remington 700 SPS TAC 223 HOG STK -DLR
 
LTR Looks like the best of the bunch. I am a fan of aluminum blocks and if the action has been trued it ought to be a no brainer. I do like the looks of the XCR stock but would opt for the LTR.
 
600 yds is pushing the capibilities of a .223 but can be done. Any of the target contured bbl remmys should work great, just spend the extra cash and get a different stock. (look at the stockade stocks if on a budget, they are well built and kevin is great to deal with). A 20 MOA base should get you out there easily and for rings your choice (I prefer steel over alum. and are partial to warne.) For scopes, well that is a whole other story. Falcons are great for the $ (check them out on sniper central) I love my nikons and believe they are the best bang fot the buck. Good luck over there and THANK YOU!!

Chris

p.s check out howa actions!
p.s
 
A 223 @ 600 is limited largely by the 20" barrel. I've always felt the 20" was invented for urban snipers, not necessarily long distance. And you sure won't need a 20 MOA base to get there, even with a Remington. Beyond that, I can't help, since the best twist rates are on Savages.
 
What are the advantages of Savage over Remington? 20" barrel? Cost?
 
As far as I know the savages' stock triggers are a bit nicer. My local shop has a savage Law enforcement model in .223 for about 575, if I remember correctly. That is with the "bull barrel" and all. 24 inch only though.. at least in the LE models.. unless you go .308. From what I hear a lot more can be done with a 700 action though.

Also I'm no expert, but isn't 600 yards a bit long for .223 from a 20 inch barrel? Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.
 
isn't 600 yards a bit long for .223 from a 20 inch barrel?

Not if you are shooting Service Rifle across the course, it isn't.

But with a bolt gun, I don't see why you should limit yourself, a 24" barrel will be a free 100 fps or so and move the noise that much farther away.

You can get a Savage Long Range Precision Varminter with a 7" twist which will let you shoot the 80 and even 90 grain bullets that will be a big help at 600 yards.
 
Well this one is "only" good for 400 yards on head sized shots (varmints)and the barrel starts to heat up after 30 quick ones but Won me a few regional matches in the 80's (before others were using the 5.56 for such a purpose). It was built by Brown Precision from a 40x in 1980.It used to wear a bigger 12x scope, the current 3-9 with kill flash is more practical IMHO.
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What are the advantages of Savage over Remington? 20" barrel? Cost?

Twist. And cost. To me, a 20" barrel is a short handy hunting/urban rifle, for 200 yards shots. Which is what a police tactical was designed for. The farther away you're shooting with a 223.........or any rifle........velocity is your friend, and every inch of barrel helps. Your other friend is a high BC bullet, like an 80g Berger VLD. And for the high BC bullets, a 1-7 twist is really the hot ticket. My Model 12 low profile is 1-7, and shooting Black Hills reloads with 77g SMKs really well @ 600.
 
If it was me (it will be be when I get the money saved) build an A3 flat top with a 24" ultra match barrel. To top it off I would add Millet rings and clamp the new Bushnell 6500 Elite 4.5-30X50 on there. I already have the lower ready with RRA two stage trigger now I just need the funding for the rest of the project.
 
Service rifle is shot at 600 yards. I understand most good competitors use the heavy 69-75 Gr VLD (very low drag) bullets. Try reading the Accurate Ar 15 , and there is another about competitive shooting with the "black rifle". Apparently they can be extremely accurate at long range.

I have a custom upper, 22" heavy match barrel free floated under mil spec handgards, and flattop. I have never been able to shoot at those ranges but it is a sub 0.5moa rifle, better than some of my bolt or single shot rifles.

Get a quality bolt action, with heavy match grade barrel with proper twist for the heavier bullets . That will probably be the most bang for your buck as a very high quality AR with a good match barrel is going to cost much more, and you could put the difference into a top quality scope and still have some money left over.
 
I would get the LTR. Here's why.

20" is all you need for the .223 ballistically. 24" doesn't win you a whole lot, but makes the rifle heavier and less handy.

The LTR comes in an HS Precision stock with an aluminum bedding block. That helps improve accuracy quite a bit. The XCR comes in a B&C with the block. The XCR seems nice, but for the price you can just get an LTR and buy an aftermarket trigger and probably come in for less. The XCR is going for around $1,100, the LTR you can still find for around $850-$900. XCR seems a lot more like a one-stop-shop depending on how good its adjustable "40x" trigger really is.

I have the SPS Tactical. I ditched the Hogue stock and put it in a PSS. Rifle is a sub-moa tack driver.
 
20" is about perfect. you do not gain enough out of the .223 to make the extra weight worth anything. guys use 16" bull barrels to shoot out to 500 yards. and as said above, AR's with 20" barrels are used in high power and other compotions.
 
Dont tread on me - what is a PSS stock? Newbie trying to soak it all in
 
The size of the targets used for 600-yard rifle competitions are quite large when compared to your typical "varmint" (ground hog, blackbird)... but a well practiced shooter might make the occasional shot on a coyote at that range with a .223... if the wind isn't blowing.

The accuracy you hear of in 600-yard service rifle matches usually comes with 77 or 80-grain hand loads, which need to be single loaded into AR type rifles because they will not fit in the magazine -- the larger bullets being so long.

A better choice in a bolt gun for the shooting you describe would be a .243 WIN - which can push an 80-grain Berger Match bullet at 3500+/- fps out of a 26 inch barrel, a much better choice for 600-yard shots on critters and such, but you still have to do your part behind the trigger.

Even if you had the barrel shortened to 20-inches you would still be far ahead of the game from a ballistic point of view.

My personal choice would be a Remington 700 SPS Varmint, and I would toss the plastic stock for an HS Precision stock from Cabela’s, and top it off with a Leupold 4.5-14X40mm Mark IV target scope (Sportsmen’s Warehouse), which should all cost less than $1,000 total.

Any gunsmith that actually knows what he is doing can remove the glue from the new Remington trigger adjusting screws and get you adjusted down to a much better than factory trigger, and I would mount the scope in a standard Leupold one-piece mount and STD rings.

The $500 you save could go toward getting yourself set up to load your own ammo - which you should be doing if you expect to be shooting tight-groups at 600-yards. Remember, a 1MOA group @ 600-yards is a 6-inch group, and just because someone can shoot 1MOA @ 100-yards, doesn't necessarily mean they can shoot 1MOA @ 600-yards with the same rifle & ammo… the target is smaller and mother nature has more time to screw with you at longer ranges..
 
If you plan on routinely shooting to 600 yards, you may want to think about a fast twist barrel that will handle long, high BC bullets. 1:8 or faster. Too many bolt action 223 rifles are still built around 1:12 twist barrels.
 
I am with Ski, and Premium on this one; I believe that other than CZ, savage makes the best factory bbls, for the big boys. their trigger is better. a 24 inch bbl will gain you 35 to 50 fps per inch , in a 223 bullet, depending on the cart itself. That gets us an extra 150 to 200 fps, which is a huge deal in trajectory, after crossing 300 yds. a savage in a heavy bbl varminter profile, or the ftr , with a 24 or 26 inch bbl, I personally believe, will smoke a remmy. And this coming from a diehard remmy 288 fan, who has one in 243.
My next choice over the remmy would be a CZ, kevlar varmint.
and if you could get one in 223 from cz, in a 750 model, that would be the king over all of them, but I'm not sure they ever made one in 223.
 
Does savage have a good rifle in 20" barrel. Going with .223 because of what I'm familiar with. Don't have that much information on .243. Also was thinking .223 would be more available and eaiser for younger son to shoot as well.
600 yards is by far the max I would be shooting. Our local range back home goes out to 600 yards and has rifle only shooting once a week.
Also thought with .223 being cheaper I would be able to shoot more often.
 
223 is a good choice from the standpoint of shootablilty and ammo price, however in windy conditions it is a marginal round for 600+ yard shooting.

If you think that eventually you'll start shooting longer range, unknown distance-style matches, a good 6mm (like the 243) or even a light 6.5 (like the new 6.5x47 or 6.5 creedmore) would also be a good choice.

atek3
 
Dont tread on me - what is a PSS stock? Newbie trying to soak it all in


It is a stock from the 700 PSS which is now called the 700P. All it is is the HS Precision brand stock Remington uses on their LE rifles (like the 700P and LTR).

The LTR stock is also made by HS Precision, but it is a more slimlined profile. Doesn't have as long of a forearm, is thinner in many places. A bit more handy. However, it is still made with fiberglass and kevlar and still has the aluminum bedding block (which greatly helps improve accuracy) and still free floats the barrel.

The Hogue stock that comes on the SPS is kind of cheesy. You can still get 0.9-1.2 groups with a good load, but a stiff stock with a bedding block like the HS or even the B&C (offered on the XCR) will shave 1/3 off the groups or get it near 1/2moa. It will take the rifle from "around MOA" to sub-MOA. So many potential tack-drivers are lost or wasted because companies sell them with flimsy junk stocks to lower the price. Stock is a critical part of accuracy.


I bought one used from Sniper's Hide forums. You see a lot of these stocks for sale. They also sell LTR stocks and "5R" stocks which are very nice. Guys who are upgrading to even better stocks like McMillan or the Accuracy International stocks are unloading these. Kind of funny. What they are getting rid of is my upgrade. LOL. One man's junk is another's gold. Either way, a $300-$350 stock can be found used for $180-$225. And it is just as good as a new one.


I recommended the LTR because it already has a good stock and you don't have to mess with it. LTR can be found from $850-$950. Another advantage of the LTR is that it has the name LTR which gives it better resale and makes it more attractive/valuable.

You can save some money getting an SPS like I did and upgrading the stock later. Just more hassle in price shopping a stock. For example, at the time, the SPS was $520. I got the PSS stock for $175. I sold the Hogue stock for $65. In the end, I got a 20" rifle in a decent stock for $630ish. That saves me money vs. the LTR to buy an aftermarket trigger. The X-mark trigger is pretty good for a factory trigger, but for $120-$150 you can get a crisp, reliable 1lb trigger and never look back. Still, you come in less than an LTR, but you have a better trigger in the end. That's what I did, but it wasn't as simple as just buying the gun. You save a little to spend on mounts or a bipod.

What will you not have? Barrel fluting. But to me that is a useless feature. The other is that the LTR and 700P rifles have a better finish. A tougher finish and not as prone to rust as the cheaper SPS. SPS finish is not that great. If you do not keep it clean and keep a layer of oil on it, you can get flash rust on some areas. I don't mind since I take good care of it, and I will probably paint the rifle. But if you want a better finish that will be more forgiving, go with the LTR.

The same things apply to the LTR as it does to the XCR. Put a better trigger in the LTR and you've basically got an XCR. Of course, check pricing to be sure.

All of them have the same barrel and action. They are all accurate. Some just have better stocks, finish or fluting. That's the difference.
 
As for scope, Midway is selling a 6.5-20x Nikon Buckmaster scope with mil-dot reticle, side focus and turrets for $300. Decent deal. It will have enough elevation to get you to 600, but that's about it. Only negative is the 1/8 clicks, but that is a positive for target shooting. This scope is going to have pretty good optics. Won't be easy to get all these features and good glass for the same price or cheaper.

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpa...07&utm_source=fnikon&utm_medium=homepage51908

Another choice is the SWFA Super Sniper for $300. This is a fixed 10x or 16x (even a 20X) with mildot. Has rear focus and a ton of adjustment range to get you out to 800+ yards. Only negative, it is fixed power.

I think the Buckmaster is better as it will fill the target/varmint role a lot better than a sniper-style fixed like the SS from SWFA. If I wanted to shoot targets/varmints, I'd go with the 6.5-20 variable, if I wanted to shoot badguys, I'd go with the fixed 10x.

If you really need more flexibility in adjustment, you can always get a 10moa or 20moa base.

If you aren't going into combat with this rifle or shooting some perp in a hostage situation, you can save some money using normal rings. Hunting rings are pretty good. Steel rings like from Burris are excellent ($30). No need for $165 tactical rings on a .223 that will be used at the range and for varmints. I'd get those tactical rings if I were in a war and were dragging the rifle on the ground or bumping it around as climb things or manuever.


That's just my opinion. You can get yourself an excellent Remington 700 in a nice stock with a decent trigger and a good scope for $1,500 and it will serve well on varmints and targets. That's good package. A lot of gun and scope for the money. Trust me, you can do a lot worse with the same cash.
 
Rem 700 varmint SPS has a nice long barrel and can shoot out that far. I havent done it personally, but I have seen it done in long distance matches.
 
The only problem with the SPS Varmint is that it is a 1/12 twist. That means up to 55-60gr bullets only.


A 20" 1/9 with a 69gr will do much better at longer range. Some stabilize the 75gr.


The SPS Tactical is 1/9
The LTR is 1/9
The XCR is 1/9


The SPS Varmint is 1/12.
 
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