rifle & caliber for 300 to 600 yards

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flexible

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hi everyone; flexible here. got my first hi-power rifle ever (S&W M&P 15 in 5.56) two years ago and now I'm thinking of a bolt action for 300 and 600 yard shooting.
I thought I had made up my mind on a Savage #12 in 6.5 Creedmoor but now I'm getting feedback to get a Remington 700 in .308.
Does anyone have any suggestions?
I'm hoping to keep the cost of rifle and scope under $2500.
thanks
flexible
 
A couple years ago a young man here in Oregon won a state long distance shooting match with a stock Remington SPS .30-06 with a sporter weight barrel and a Leupold 3-9x40 scope. You could certainly spend a lot and get a lot of gun, especially with a $2500 budget. But only wanting to shoot 300 to 600 yards, I think I'd buy a Rem 700, Howa 1500, Savage, etc. for $700 and put a decent Leupold, Nikon, Vortex scope on it. You should still be at less than $1500. Spend some money getting ammo for it, spend the rest on a good practical shooting class or on gas to the range.

For what it's worth, the last dedicated target rifle I had was a Remington 700 aac-sd in .308 win. It had a Bushnell fixed 10x scope on it. Once I got it broken in, found a load it liked, and got some trigger time with it, it made nice little holes in the target. The entire setup was a little under a grand, not counting ammo costs.
 
The Savage 12 in Creedmore would be a good choice. Savage rifles are getting a reputation for stellar accuracy and great triggers. I've never regretted the Savage rifles I've purchased.
 
Flexible;

If there's a 600 yard range that you're planning to shoot at, I'd start by picking the brains of the guys using the range. However, every single one of them will have his, or her, own opinion just as we do here. But there, you can see & verify the results.

That point being made, I'll second the choice for a 6.5 X 55mm Swedish Mauser. It is a beautiful cartridge that was created almost literally a hundred years ahead of it's time. It's won Palma competitions for accuracy and I can personally tell you it's good for any North American game up to and including elk. I'm in central Montana & hunt elk with mine every year.

900F

PS: Got to thinkin' that I'd better state that I don't shoot elk at 600 yards with my Swede before the peanut gallery gets it's shorts in a knot. I don't shoot any game animal at that kind of range. I'm a good enough hunter that I can get closer, and I'm not enough of an egomaniac to think that I have to prove something by shooting animals at extended ranges.
 
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300 - 600 you could use lot of calibers.
The first two to consider are .223 & .308 as you can use those in F-Class T/R if you wanted.

The .308 you could make do with a stock rifle. The .223 would be a bit trickier due to finding one with the proper twist. A long range AR would be an option.

Also consider if you ever want to hunt with it.
 
If your 223 has a 1:8 or 1:7.7 twist, try that at 600 yards. I have been shooting XTC and Long Range for several decades, mid Range has popped up in the last couple of years. Ballistically the 80 grain SMK or the 77 SMK is similar to the 168 SMK at 600 yards.

A bud of mine has been shooting his 223 scoped AR at 600 yards and I copied his idea with my match AR. I am a sling shooter, shoot prone with a sling. I was very happy with my 223 at 600 yards. With that 223 I don't break position and it does not knock me out of position. That makes a heck of a difference on paper and anyone who has been a competitive shooter knows the importance of a consistent position. I was loaded and ready to fire once the target came up, I only shot when wind conditions seemed predictable and consistent. If the wind picked up a little bit I shot on the edge of the ring and adjusted my aimpoint by my impact. If the wind really picked up, I stopped and waited for it to subside. I recall shooting HM scores and the high X count really perked me up as I have been struggling with my scoped 308 at 600 yards. It is too heavy and knocks me out of position each shot. Incidentally I shot my 75 Hornady’s at 600 yards and they hammer just as well as the 80 SMK’s.

If you really want to use a 30 caliber, try the 308 Win. The current “hot” target load is a 185 Berger, 44 grs Varget, Laupa small primer brass. This may be so hot that you blow primers in your gun so work your way up. I have been told the best barrel/twist combination is a Krieger four groove 1:12 twist. This is from shooters on the US F Class tactical team, and this is their 1000 yard load.

For 600 yards, a 168 Match, better yet, the 175 SMK, and I have shot thousands of 190’s.

Any of the 6.5's will be a great choice, just that they eat barrels faster than a 308. Until such time as you are shooting consistent Master scores, don't sweat the difference between 223/6.5/308. The greatest difference on paper will be due to you.
 
Flexible, you didn't indicate what your goal is for the rifle. If you're thinking you have to have a bolt action for 600 yards, then I'll back up what Slamfire inferred and say that you can stick with your AR and do just fine. Consider using that money for a new, precision upper and a really good trigger and glass and have cash left over.

600 yards isn't all that difficult unless you're trying to shoot tiny, tiny groups. And frankly, I know lots of folks that try to shoot tiny groups and find it much more difficult to do than what they're willing to put in to it in terms of time, effort or money, and/or just get bored with it.
 
Your original thought of a Savage #12 in 6.5 Creedmoor would be perfect. No need to put up with the extra recoil of the .308. Doesn't take much searching to discover that the various 6.5s are winning matches out to 1000 regularly. I just sold my .308 and am working on a .260 Rem build. Your 6.5 Creedmoor would be just fine.
 
The Savage 12 is likely to be more accurate then a Rem 700. The Savage is also more easily customizable. I have owned three 700s and six Savages, I have been more pleased with the Savages by a healthy margin, now if you were asking about Savage 12 vs Tikka Varminter that would be a much closer contest. To be fair I have never owned a heavy barrel 700 just CDLs and an ADL, but my 6.5-7lbs non-Accustock Savages shoot circles around them. The least accurate Savage I have owned shoots 1/2MOA with hunting bullets, two of them produce regular cloverleafs also with hunting bullets.
The 6.5 Creedmore has considerably better external ballistics, the 6.5 Creedmore is ballisticly very similar to my 6.5x55, let's do the math, my 140gr VLDs have a BC of .614 and I can drive then to 2750fps in my short tube, the 308 can also wield bullets of similar aerodynamics (200-210gr target bullets) but would be limited to around 2450fps which is 30-30 speeds in similar barrel lengths, or if you like lighter bullets look at it this way the Creedmore can push 123gr A-Max bullets slightly faster then the 308 can push it's 155gr A-Max and the BC is .510 vs .435 a considerable difference to say the least, the mid ranged 6.5s are closer to the 300 Win Mag in terms of external ballistics with less recoil then a 308, that is why they are so popular with long ranged shooters.
 
What do you want to do at 600 yards? Shoot bench rest competition? Long-range hunting? Hit man-sized targets? Just bang steel/punch paper at the range?

It doesn't take any kind of special rig to make it to 600 yards... it's just a matter of how accurate you need to be and what kind of terminal performance is required.
 
bscott29 said:
What about the new 26 nosler?
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Like all wildly overbore cartridges it is not for the casual shooter, much like the 7mm Ultra Mag and 30-378, they burn barrels out too fast and are generally not alot of fun and very expensive to shoot though I am sure the 26 Nosler kicks less then the others I mentioned but still loud as hell no doubt, and 500-1000 rounds is all you will ever get out of a barrel and even that may be optimistic depending on your shooting habits. Price of 6.5 Creedmore match ammo is comparable to 308 match and very low recoil, sounds like a winner to me, I would already have one if I did not own a 6.5x55 which is a ballistic twin and predates the Creedmore by about 110 years.
 
At one time, Savage would mix and match.
You could get any model in any caliber they chamber for. At extra cost, of course, but not a lot more.

Unless for tactical matches on the clock, I recommend one of the single shot versions
 
henschman said:
What do you want to do at 600 yards? Shoot bench rest competition? Long-range hunting? Hit man-sized targets? Just bang steel/punch paper at the range?

It doesn't take any kind of special rig to make it to 600 yards... it's just a matter of how accurate you need to be and what kind of terminal performance is required.
Click to expand...


This is spot on. There are so many variables that only you know what you are wanting. You most likely will have to find a happy medium as one cartridge/caliber/rifle isn't going to be a perfect choice.

Just to name a few, I shoot a 22LR,223,223AI,22-250,243,260,6.5x284,6.5x55,6.5x06IMP,264mag,308,various 300mags,various 7mmmags,338Lapua and 50BMG at those distances and beyond. Each one brings something different to the table.

The 223 and 308 will offer the most selection when choosing a firearm or ammunition regardless of whether it's factory or hand loads. Beware that fast twist rates are your friend.
 
I've had similar discussions with those at the monthly bench rest match I sometimes attend. For 600 yards they say that the 6BR was optimized for that. If bench rest shooting is what you would want to do then that's the way I would go. Personally, I have and use a 308 as I was looking for a general rifle for a variety of ling distance type shooting and not specifically bench rest. You can get a good rifle and scope in your price range.
 
If I were looking for a nice accurate reasonably priced bolt gun today, I would look hard at the Tikka CTR in .260 or .308. When I was in the market, and hankering for a CTR, they were not being imported anymore. Not sure when these are due in.
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I have that rifle, and it's an absolute tack-driver for the price (which was around $820 when I bought it). It shoots 100 yard groups as good as my Accuracy International, and the .308 Win is a great cartridge for this rifle.

I definitely put the .308 Win as a "must have" precision rifle cartridge for someone who is starting in this game. It's an easy cartridge to load for, provides truly exceptional barrel life when compared to other well-known cartridges, and you can find cheap factory "match" ammo to shoot.

My AIAX shoots a .260 Remington, which is a more capable long range cartridge. But, it's not as easy to load for, doesn't give the same barrel life, and components are much harder to come by (and virtually no factory "match" ammo is available).

I'd strongly recommend that the OP considers a .308 Win as a first precision rifle. It's a great place to start, and it's absolutely at home in the 300-600 yard range that the OP mentioned. I've plinked a few prairie dogs in the 650-725 yard range with my Tikka, which definitely exceeds the accuracy potential I was hoping for with that cartridge.
 
Rem 700

I have a Remington 700 SPS Tactical in .308 with a 16.5" barrel that does fine out to 600yrds. Its not the most accurate rifle, but its fun to shoot. As said above, any modern rifle and decent scope should get you to the 600 yrd range pretty easy. Here is my shorty bolt gun.
 

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A .308 Savage would be fine for 3-600 yards, and you could do just fine with factory ammo.

If you handload, either 6.5CM or 260 Rem could yield very impressive results.
 
Get the savage. I have a tikka varment nice accurate gun but doesn't feel good. I have a howa really accurate but you will have to fix the trigger their that bad you might as well order a new trigger with the gun. The browning I have is a great all round gun but I think I was lucky to get one so good. But the savage is just a pleasure to carry, shoot, look at, accurate every thing you want in a gun. Just pick a calibre you like, that can meet you needs. IMHO
 
I have a Savage 12 in .223 with a 1:9 twist, a 26" bull barrel and a single shot receiver. I have never had the chance to shoot 600 yards but I've shot 500 yards a lot. It is very accurate at that distance with my average groups being in the 4"-5" range and my best group being about an inch. Savage 12's have won a bunch of international competitions out to 1000 yards. People do shoot .223 at 1000 yards BTW. It just takes more skill dealing with the wind mostly. A 6.5 Creedmor should do better at 1000 yards but at 600 yards you can probably make the .223 Savages do very well. The local gun club has 600 yard competitions and according to the range master the Savage 12 LRPV dominates those competitions. That's the same rifle I own. Look for the target action and AccuTrigger for the best results from a Savage.
 
Its not the arrow.
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Ever try to shoot a crooked arrow? ;) Sometimes the arrow does matter. In firearms it's usually the barrel though. But other things can be involved too.
 
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