.223 self-defense/combat

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kestak

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Greetings,

Right now, my magazines are filled with:
- Silver bear 62 grains HP (commercial)
- Hornady 55 grains SP over 25.1 grains of TAC
- PMC 55 grains FMJ

I am looking to use a better bullet for my AR platform.

Which bullet would you reload in .223 for self-defense/combat?
Wall over-penetration is not an issue.

Thank you
 
Anything in a .308 or larger caliber. Sorry, .223 is not an effective killer and I was always taught that I should only point a gun at something that I plan to kill.
 
For self-defense I would use factory loads. In your case, it's a tossup. The 62gr HP's would be more effective but Silver Bear (or any of those Russian/Wolf offshoots) doesn't have the sure fire reliability of PMC. I'd probably use the PMC because at least I know it will go bang. Silver Bear can't be more effective if it fails. Just my $.02.
 
Sorry, .223 is not an effective killer and I was always taught that I should only point a gun at something that I plan to kill.
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More caliber madness. Sorry Kelbro but I think that your perception on .223 is way off base. I easily take deer with it in Maine. 9 dead and zero missed with my .223 bolt action. I own larger calibers but just like carrying my .223 around much better, plus the accuracy is .5 moa or better. Needless to say I trust the hell out of this gun putting down whitetail.

That in my opinion is just a crazy comment, especially in regards to home defense where targets are humans and are at close distances. I would agree that .223 insn't an effective killer on game larger than whitetail deer, but on humans at 20yrds max, give me a break. For some shooters it may not be effective on whitetail at any range. It's all in bullet choice and placement.

Point an AR at an intruder and tell me if he thinks .223 is an effective killer. At that point I dought he cares if its a 22lr, dude is gonna need a new pair of pants.
 
To answer the OP I would suggest something in the 69gr. range of bullets. Not sure what your twist rate is though as I have no experience with AR's and honestly probably never will. I love the .223 Rem cartridge but think very little of AR's. Sorry, off topic. I might even go heavier if your rifling can stabalize it, and would also look at these bullets in varmint style hollow points.
 
Greetings,


Please Please Please Please Please Please Please :banghead:

I am not interested in opinions that .308/30-06/50 BMG is better.

That is not the point of my question. IF I wanted to change caliber, I could have gone 6.8 in AR platform.

I am looking for a specific -->bullet in .223 <--- (brand/type/weight) to use that someone used effectively (in hunting I hope... :what:) so I can reload my self-defense rounds with it.

I ain't going to war, if so, I would have to use uncle Sam Geneva convention obedient bullet. So, I want simply to know which bullet is the most effective to kill.

Thank you
 
223 of any type is on an order of magnitude vastly superior to a handgun that in my opinion the type ammo used is irrevelant


KELBRO when I was a child we were taught that in the event of a tornado you had to open a few windows so the building wouldn't explode......,just cause were taught that didn't make it correct
 
Sorry, .223 is not an effective killer and I was always taught that I should only point a gun at something that I plan to kill.
Click to expand...
:banghead: Where did this idea come from? As krochus said, even with FMJ rounds it's more effective than most handguns (I say most only thanks to rounds like the .460 S&W). Pick a good expanding bullet and you're really light years ahead.
 
use the PMC 55gr FMJ , u cant go wrong with that bullet, dont listen to all the .223 whiners i am sure they wont want to get shot with a PMC 55gr FMJ bullet either. i use PPU 55gr FMJBT in 5.56x45mm NATO for self defense cuz those heavy bullets dont yaw and fragment as well as the 55gr FMJ.

yeah the heavy .223 have better penetration but who needs that when you have extreme fragmentation?
 
I don't know how big your house is but for self defense, if you shoot someone with a 55 grain bullet traveling a 3000 feet per second you are going to kill him! Twist rate; soft point; isn't going to matter. The wound cavity from that shot is huge. Search this forum for .223 wound pictures and you will see the devistation.
 
I prefer any of the 55-60 grain ballistic tip type bullets. My gun is loaded with Hornady TAP 60 grain load. Violent energy dump and these type rounds are proven street preformers in actual shooting ( mostly LE). Since I didn't sign the Geneva Convention I should be good to go. Also being factory ammo gives some liability protection versus factory load. This ammo is loaded into three twenty round pmags. My other load is for deeper penetration is the 62 grain green tip m855 loaded in 3 thirty round pmags. Gives me 150 rounds in my o darn gear and if I need more than that I believe I will go home to momma.

Now I know I will get flamed for this statement but I believe it to be true. So here goes. The 5.56/.223 in the 55-60 grain Ballistic tip/Varmint bullet is a better performer than the 308 either with ball or hollowpoint ammo. This is done by it's violent expansion and it's large temporary wound cavity and some hydrostatic shock to the body. Where most 308 rounds don't open up quick enough to dump their energy and most of the energy goes through and out the body.

This only applies to self defense and LE use here in the US and does not apply to 5.56 ball or military use exspecially the sandbox. This also applies to shooting for center mass. Zombie shootings also do not apply.

LE use here in the states show that people go down hard with the fast varmint/ ballistic tip type bullets out of the m4 carbine.
 
I'd consider a soft or hollowpoint but wouldn't feel undergunned with fmj. It has worked well for me in the past. At close ranges even fmj has the velocity to fragment.
 
FMJ's have not impressed me in the least as far as their wounds go but others disagee. At the minimum, I think it is not reliable to cause a good wound.
 
I shoot the same 62gr. Silver Bear you do through my 1 in 9" carbine. I have never had so much as a hard primer.

It's accurate, and I feel confident in the penetration and expansion if I do my part.
 
At the minimum, I think it is not reliable to cause a good wound.
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I would agree there. Wounding potential is highly dependent on velocity. Fire it out of a carbine or at a distant target and its effectiveness goes down faster than that of a SP or HP.
 
Isn't it amazing how much static comes about when people don't respect the simple parameters of a question? You want to reload a .223 bullet for Self Defense and you want specific recommendations.

When I started reloading .223 I found my way (through recommendations and browsing) to a resource at AR15.com called the Ammo Oracle:

http://ammo.ar15.com/ammo/
(access material by clicking on menu and submenu headings on the left)

My conclusion based on that set of resources and further study (haven't done any ballistic testing myself or hunted with the .223) was that the best choice is probably something in the heaviest range that your barrel's twist rate will stabilize. The barrel on my personal .223 is a 1/8, so I can go up to a 77 gr bullet, and do. If your barrel is a 1/9, the most common commercial twist rate, then you may not be able to go higher than 69--though some people can use Hornady's 75's in their 1/9 barrels.

At work, I am issued a 55 gr. soft point. Within the limited ranges I would expect to use this round (shooting out of an iron-sighted carbine w/ a 1/9 barrel), I am confident that it would be effective against opponents not behind cover. I would expect it to be defeated by auto glass, however, and that's a significant problem to me. If I had the choice I'd be loading the 75 grain Hornady for duty, but I don't.

Anyway, I hope the answers you (eventually) get here and your reading elsewhere will lead you to a solution you can live with.
 
FWIW, I own 5 rifles in .223 or 223AI so I'm not a 223 hater and I wouldn't hesitate to shoot a deer with any of them with the right bullet. But I never had a deer trying to harm me or my family. Never saw a deer high on crack or meth either and deer don't shoot back. So what someone would shoot a deer with is not relevant.

Read up on it, the military chose 223 to NOT kill people but to wound them. Wounding them takes more resources off the battleground to haul them away.

I feel the best home defense weapon is a shotgun followed closely by anything with a big soft meplat.

Please try to find one professional (outside the military) that chooses to carry anything with a .224 slug.

I am not typically an argumentative or antagonistic poster but I do feel pretty strongly that .223 is not a good choice for self defense. If you believe that it is adequate, I can respect that.

If all that I had was a 223, I'd use the 62gr Winchester. A couple of the guys that hunt our ranch in S. Texas have downed some nice deer with that bullet.
 
Read up on it, the military chose 223 to NOT kill people but to wound them. Wounding them takes more resources off the battleground to haul them away.
Click to expand...

Old myth. Debunked.

I feel the best home defense weapon is a shotgun followed closely by anything with a big soft meplat.
Click to expand...

I concur. .357 LSWC's are a good choice.

Please try to find one professional (outside the military) that chooses to carry anything with a .224 slug.
Click to expand...

The contractor game sure is full of pro's that depend on the 5.56mm every day.
Then are shooting to stop, not wound and they can choose their tools...
 
Greetings,

If I want to buy the bullet for the FPD, which one will it be?

Thank you
 
What's the twist rate on your 5.56mm barrel? Above 1:9 you should stay with 55 grain bullets. From 1:9 to 1:7 you should use 62 grain bullets or heavier.

Personally, I don't like to use hollowpoint bullets in 5.56 x 45mm; and I, certainly, don't care for Russian ammo for anything other than (maybe) range use.

HERE, this might provide a few clues. ;)
 
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