I am starting to load .223 for a RRA varmint AR with a 20 inch barrel, and am having a bit of a issue.. I am Loading Barnes VG 50 gr. bullets into once fired brass, with 23.4 gr of Ramshot TAC powder and WSR small rifle primers. This is the first load test and i am wanting to slowly go up from here.. BUT right off the bat I have an issue.. I shot 10 rounds of lake city mil surplus 55gr over my crono to get a baseline and make sure everything was working properly.. 3154 fps average, all withing 22 fps of that.. Then when I shot 10 rounds I loaded the velocity was 2850 average but fluctuated almost 100 fps either way. I did weigh each load individualy and OAL was identical also. I am using a Lee factory crimp die in this setup, but the crimp is minimal at best. Can the small crimp be causing the difference??
.223 Velocity Issues and questions..
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While it would seem velocity variation is important, it seems to be proven time and time again that it does not make a big difference in accuracy.
Start working on varying your load. You will probably find a sweet spot that accuracy gets even better.
With 223 Remington in an AR, you don't need to crimp.
Start working on varying your load. You will probably find a sweet spot that accuracy gets even better.
With 223 Remington in an AR, you don't need to crimp.
243winxb
Member
Barnes VG 50 gr. bullets - 223 Rem.
Using Barnes load data/powders might work better for you. http://www.barnesbullets.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/223RemingtonWeb.pdf Chasing velocity is a sure way to get in trouble. The Barnes bullet with a copper/tin core is going to act differently than a bullet with a plain lead core. The harder the core or jacket, the more pressure compared to a lead core bullet.
What is the maximum powder charge listed for Ramshot TAC powder w/50gr bullets??
Using Barnes load data/powders might work better for you. http://www.barnesbullets.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/223RemingtonWeb.pdf Chasing velocity is a sure way to get in trouble. The Barnes bullet with a copper/tin core is going to act differently than a bullet with a plain lead core. The harder the core or jacket, the more pressure compared to a lead core bullet.
What is the maximum powder charge listed for Ramshot TAC powder w/50gr bullets??
The difference is in barrel length, your 20" will be slow compared to 24" in the above data.
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TAC is a fine ball powder and consistant ignition is therefore inherently a greater challenge (especially with MIN charges). Winchester is a relatively hot primer to be sure, but would you consider using CCI-BR4? (I'd do this for cup thickness/safety if for no other reason.)
http://www.radomski.us/njhp/cart_tech.htm
Out of curiosity, what was the temperature at the time?
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The temperature was about 25 deg F.. Its not that I am trying to chase velocity numbers. I just figured that it would have been a little more consistant. I also understand the max load for tac powder and in no way am I trying to exceed that. And yes i would be open to trying any primers available as this is the beginning of loading .223 and I am trying to find out what works best for my particular gun.
243winxb
Member
To get a little more consistant velocity, try increasing the powder charge .3gr at a time. Your starting load powder charge may not burn as well.
NCsmitty
Member
Stay with that plan and you should see an improvement.
Cold weather can effect ball powders negatively and mag primers or BR primers will add consistency to the ignition.
NCsmitty
Cold weather can effect ball powders negatively and mag primers or BR primers will add consistency to the ignition.
NCsmitty
Was that brass that you used from varying lots? Did you weigh the brass and sort it? This alone could account for much of the deviation in your velocity. I've always gotten the most consistent performance using stick powder. Try some Varget and see what happens. Benchrest eprimers are nice, but cci small rifle works well too.
Powders have a pressure range they burn the best in and you may just be a bit out of the optimum for yours. I`d bet as you work up the velocities even out and with the mag primers suggested by the others you will find your load somewhere nearer the max in your manual.
243winxb
Member
No crimp groove, don't crimp for this bullet.>
If over done, they may look like this.>
Most would be very happy with this kind of accuracy.
25.4 Grs TAC and a 55 Gr FMJ in .223 gave me 2906 FPS from a 16" barrel at 82 degrees, so that sounds inline to me, and yes, at that temp mag primers may help as well.
TAC online data goes in the 26 plus range for 50 Gr bullets, so more powder is going to help a lot as well.
TAC online data goes in the 26 plus range for 50 Gr bullets, so more powder is going to help a lot as well.
Just to rule out any questions I had about the crimp. last night I loaded a dummy round.. (no powder or primer) and left the crimp set the way it was when loaded the test rounds.. after bullet seating and crimp, I used a bullet puller to remove said bullet and the only damage to it was very minor from the tip striking against the inside of the hammer as it was removed.. Where the crimp was located I marked with a marker so I was sure to see if there was damage there and all was well.. However as many people have pointed out, I don't acually need a crimp die so I will try it without and see where that goes.
Many will recommend you not even consider a crimp in the normal course of events. One, you don't need it. And two, unless you have all cases exactly the same length, you will have uneven crimping.
Besides, it's one more step,... one more variable, in pursuit of consistancy. :banghead:
(I must confess. The 375H&H and the 458 get crimped.)
Besides, it's one more step,... one more variable, in pursuit of consistancy. :banghead:
(I must confess. The 375H&H and the 458 get crimped.)
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